A quotation

12:29 Oct 4, 2009 

Well, it can be taken as a bleak philosophy, or as down-to-earth realism, depending how you like to look at it.

If the martial arts fan's emphasis is mainly on (physical) pain, I was going to suggest playing safe and keeping the word "dolorem". On the other hand, I do have the feeling that "dolorem" is slightly redundant.

I like the brevity of "passi et passuri".

12:02 Oct 4, 2009 

The version without 'dolorem' seems to have a very nice general flavour, I quite like it. Suits all cases, I think, even if it's perhaps a bit too pessimistic :-)

07:00 Oct 3, 2009 

Would you include the word "dolorem", or could it be simply "passi et passuri"?

19:19 Oct 2, 2009 

'dolorem passi et dolorem passuri' sounds correct to me. There's ancient evidence of using 'dolorem pati' even in Cicero. But then it should be clear that the meaning is 'to suffer', not 'to get hurt', which are still quite different things.

16:18 Oct 2, 2009 

and I'd be glad of a second opinion:

dolorem passi et dolorem passuri

pain having-suffered and pain about-to-suffer

I'm glad Luis started things off by commenting on the second part of this sentence - otherwise I probably wouldn't have thought about it.

"Passuri" has the advantage of being unambiguously a future participle, "about to suffer".
With "patiendi", I find, there's a certain amount of ambiguity: it means (depending which grammar you look at!) either "about to suffer" (active meaning) or "to be suffered" (passive meaning).

11:00 Oct 2, 2009 

Good point, Dylan. Since this comes from a Martial arts fan, I think that he wants to stress the bit of pain (and enduring pain) being a vital part of the training. So your suggestion with (passi / passuri) goes rather neatly with that idea. I'm just not sure which is better: passuri or patiendi. Is there really such a big difference in meaning between the two?

08:29 Oct 2, 2009 

"Hurt" can mean to inflict injury or to inflict pain. Perhaps there's another direction you can go with this: work around with the idea of suffering pain / blows etc. I'm suggesting this simply because I think "having suffered" and "about to suffer" go rather neatly into Latin: passi - passuri (or perhaps patiendi). You have certainly made us all think!

11:57 Oct 1, 2009 

I think Ivo's suggestion with laedo is good, too.

11:53 Oct 1, 2009 

We have the passive form of ferio "his spectris etiamsi oculi possent feriri", and it was also used in the future ""feriam sidera vertice", and we found even "feriturus".

11:50 Oct 1, 2009 

No, that is said with "ferientur"

11:49 Oct 1, 2009 

Yes, we have the same problem as with afflicturi, sorry, I was wrong.

11:49 Oct 1, 2009 

How about "ferituri erunt" then?

11:48 Oct 1, 2009 

ferituri is active, you can't use that

11:45 Oct 1, 2009 

I don't think we usually see perfect stem from 'ferire' in our texts, though. What about "Hominum genera sunt duo: qui laesi sunt et qui laedentur"

11:44 Oct 1, 2009 

Yes, you're right, of course. The shorter, the better. :-)
Now it's:
Hominum genera sunt duo: feriti et ferituri.
Sounds classy enough to me.

11:40 Oct 1, 2009 

It's a deal! Muchas gracias, señor!

11:38 Oct 1, 2009 

OK, then leave it as "feriti et illi qui ferientur"

11:36 Oct 1, 2009 

No, because the "bu" suffix is just for verbs of 1st and 2nd conjugations, ferio is of 4th conjugation.

11:35 Oct 1, 2009 

Actually, I don't need the "about to" nuance. I guess it would just be "will be hurt" in English.

11:32 Oct 1, 2009 

Maybe "feriebuntur"?

11:32 Oct 1, 2009 

And, for the "about to" nuance, I suggest "non longo intervallo". So it would be: "feriti atque illi qui non longo intervallo ferientur".

11:25 Oct 1, 2009 

It would be "illi qui affligentur". But, actually, I prefer Dylan suggestion with ferio: "feriti atque illi qui ferientur"

11:13 Oct 1, 2009 

So how about:
"afflicti atque homines affliguntur"?

11:10 Oct 1, 2009 

You still need a subject for affliguntur. Afflicti is in itself a subject, but affliguntur is a verb, and you cannot leave it alone like that.

11:09 Oct 1, 2009 

Ferio is 4th conjugation, so future passive would be ferientur. The thing is that we are losing the sense of "about to", and I am not sure how to render it in this case.

11:08 Oct 1, 2009 

I think I'll just go with "afflicti atque affliguntur".
Thank you both for all your help! It is really appreciated!

11:03 Oct 1, 2009 

The first would be "feriti". As for the 2nd, you need some subject.

10:45 Oct 1, 2009 

Or with "ferio":
..."ferii atque feribuntur"?

10:43 Oct 1, 2009 

With "laedo", we would have:
Hominum genera sunt duo: laessi atque laedibuntur.
How does that sound to you?

10:40 Oct 1, 2009 

"affliguntur", but really I'm wondering about which verb is best: laedo, ferio ...
As regards "duo", it sounds right to me. Again, this is a point where I don't know the finer detail, because it seems that "dua genera" was sometimes used.

10:19 Oct 1, 2009 

How about the future passive voice? Do you know it?
Could it be something like "affliguntur"?
Without doubt, there is a better verb alternative than "affligo", but I can't think of one...

09:54 Oct 1, 2009 

I think the gerundive can serve as future passive participle: affligendi.
This isn't really one of my language pairs, though I had a fair amount of contact with Latin in the past, so I'm always interested to hear from those who know about the finer points of usage. There may be alternatives to "affligo", for example.

09:07 Oct 1, 2009 

Thanks for your comments, Dylan.

According to my Latin grammar, "duo" is the neutral form - seeing as "genus" is a neutral noun.
"Hominum" instead of "hominorum" - of course, this just proves how rusty I am... ;-)
But what about the "afflicturi"? Another colleague here on ProZ told me it is the active voice, not the passive, so I have really written "about to do some hurting" instead of "about to get hurt".
What do you suggest there?

08:23 Oct 1, 2009 

for the first part:
Hominum genera sunt duo ...

Is "duo" better here than "dua"? Perhaps someone can comment on that.