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Aug 31, 2017 16:49
6 yrs ago
German term

annehmen (here)

German to English Other History WWII document (same as before)
Das deutschfeindliche Ausland aber täte gut daran, dieses Problem und seine Lösung den Deutschen selbst zu überlassen. Soweit es das Bedürfnis hat, für die deutschen Juden einzutreten und sich ihrer anzunehmen, stehen sie ihm in beliebiger Anzahl zur Verfügung.

Does it mean "to take care of them"? I've never seen annehmen used this way before.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 take up their cause
3 +3 take them in
4 take on/support
4 take them in

Discussion

Björn Vrooman Sep 1, 2017:
@Ramey and Thomas Too late for the question, but you may be interested to know that I've found the source of the quote online and it's an article by Goebbels.

If you want to read about a troubling chapter of German legal history, here it is [Edit: this is not the link about the book, just FYI]:
https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/article1437...

I think Kaportnoy should have referenced this; "taking them in" is most likely, as the next list item talks about "Aufnahmebereitschaft" of other countries (figuratively speaking, Thomas).

Interestingly enough, there has already been a translation of this sentence (same book, English version from 2015). P. 80 here:
https://books.google.de/books?id=NNQuBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA...

I think "cynical" is not the right way to describe that.

Have a great weekend, all of you
franglish Sep 1, 2017:
Thanks, Ramey, you're a sport! Time to relax with a glass of wine and hope for a glimpse of the sun tomorrow. Cheers!
Kaportnoy (asker) Sep 1, 2017:
Thanks everyone! Great discussion and helped me out a lot!
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 1, 2017:
You're a tough woman to please! Which speaks for you, of course. And yes, Countries hostile... would suffice.
franglish Sep 1, 2017:
Actually, in the German original not individuals but countries are welcome to stand up for them and give them refuge.
franglish Sep 1, 2017:
Webster's definition of foreigner: a person not native to or naturalized in the country or jurisdiction under consideration.
Your last proposal is fine, though I do think "foreign", as in "foreign countries", is redundant.
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 1, 2017:
AHA! I certainly didn't mean to imply foreigners in Germany, but can see how it could be read that way. Would it become clearer with 'Countries' or even Foreign countries opposing Germany...?
franglish Sep 1, 2017:
Hi Ramey Yes, I do. But I don't agree with your translation of Ausland. Hostile countries are meant, not foreigners living in Germany. The meaning of annehmen here: to take them in, to accept them as refugees in their own countries.
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 1, 2017:
Hi Thomas Whew! Glad on the first count. As to "take them in," I see it as a logical progression from 'stand up for' in this particular context, as that is precisely what many people (foreigners) did. Of course, to avoid putting the cart before the horse, I could revise to:
Foreigners opposing Germany would be well advised to leave solving this problem to the Germans themselves. Anyone feeling the need to stand up for German Jews and 'take care of them', well, there's plenty (of them) to go around.

Still, I think "take them in" makes more sense.
Thomas Pfann Sep 1, 2017:
cynical and derisive, yes - but not 'take them in' I do see the cynicism and derision - definitely. What I do not see, though, is the 'taking them in' part. Of course, it makes sense, but it is an interpretation and not at all what the German says - sich jemandes annehmen heißt sich um jemanden kümmern, nicht jemanden aufnehmen.

Hätte der Autor wirklich darauf hinausgewollt, dass diese Länder deutsche Juden gerne aufnehmen können, dann hätte es andere Möglichkeiten gegeben, das tatsächlich zu sagen - „sich ihrer annehmen“ heißt etwas anderes. „Look after“ wäre vielleicht noch eine Alternative zu „take care of/care for“.
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 1, 2017:
Hi Franglish Also good. Do you see any cynicism in it?
franglish Sep 1, 2017:
Second sentence: Should they feel the need to stand up for the German Jews and take them in, there are more than enough.
Ramey Rieger (X) Sep 1, 2017:
Good morning! Why do I think there is derision? Well, standing alone, the tone of the sentence seems to imply that the author can't be bothered, or is deriding those who are bothered by what is happening in Germany. Of course, knowing WHICH problem the Germans should solve themselves would be helpful. Still, particularly the last bit is rather contemptuous - there's plenty of them available.
I don't believe I'm on the wrong track, David, but of course, it's possible.
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
ok and just go with what you think is the best combination
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
abwarten und ... ok ich trinke schon den Tee
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
freue mich drauf
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
forthcoming?
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
which will no doubt be ...
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
looking forward to writeaway's added input
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
you see the benefit of this great site (been on it for years) and sometimes combining input gets you to where you want to go
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
just see it as you and your native speaker read it and go with it maybe incorporating our suggestions
Kaportnoy (asker) Aug 31, 2017:
Ah great catch on the it's! Can't believe I did that. I'm not sure on the derision thing. Why do you think there isn't any @David Hollywood and why do you think there is @Ramey Rieger? And yes, I did ask, I very much appreciate the input on this weird sentence (for my brain at least!)
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
don't see any derision
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
on the wrong track Ramey
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
and without the comma
David Hollywood Aug 31, 2017:
"its"s rather than "it's"
Ramey Rieger (X) Aug 31, 2017:
Hi Kaportnoy I would not use "advocate for" as it is rather stiff considering the derisive tone of the sentence, but does carry the 'bleeding heart' cynicism. I don't think you have to repeat 'Jews' at the end - perhaps 'there are plenty of them available' although I do prefer my suggestion of 'there's plenty of them to go around,' or 'there's no lack of them' or there's plenty to choose from' - something bitter and contemptuous. I feel this is missing (you did ask...;-))
Kaportnoy (asker) Aug 31, 2017:
Thanks everyone. You guys are great. I'm still really struggling with that last phrase though (which I know was not my original question, I hope I can still talk about it here). Kind of combining your answers and what I was thinking, I have "Anti-German foreigners would be well-advised to leave this problem, and it's solution, to the Germans themselves. Insofar as they feel the need to advocate for the German Jews and support their cause, any number of Jews are available to them." Not thrilled with the last part, but any opinions?

Proposed translations

+4
3 mins
Selected

take up their cause

That's what this means

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Note added at 32 mins (2017-08-31 17:21:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Countries​ exhibiting hostility towards Germany would be well advised to leave this problem and its solution to the Germans themselves. To the extent, they feel compelled to advocate for German Jews and take up their cause..."

I don't know what "sie" in the last segment refers to. Probably "German Jews" but even then, it's unclear how to translate the last segment unless we see more of the preceding context.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 mins (2017-08-31 17:22:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry. No comma after extent.
Note from asker:
ahhh...makes sense. My Austrian husband told me it was the same as "sich kümmern um" but I wasn't sure. Glad I asked.
and is the sie in this case referring to die deutschen Juden? My brain is having a rough time with this sentence...
Peer comment(s):
agree David Hollywood : and "stand up for the German Jews" for the "für die deutschen Juden einzutreten" bit
8 mins
Yes, thanks, David.
agree Eleanore Strauss : actually in this context, it's more about taking them in /taking care of them... this is a very cynical prhase
13 mins
Agree. In a metaphorical sense. Shouldn't sound too literal.
neutral writeaway : what cause? /just leave it. it's already got signs of a very 'political' article, so let's not delve into arguments about who the "real" victims were............ Heard enough of that when I lived in Germany
4 hrs
Don't remember. But I can find out for you, if you like
agree Dhananjay Rau : agree
8 hrs
Thanks, Dhananjay
agree Clive Phillips
1 day 1 hr
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Danke!!"
48 mins

take on/support

Das deutschfeindliche Ausland aber täte gut daran, dieses Problem und seine Lösung den Deutschen selbst zu überlassen. Soweit es das Bedürfnis hat, für die deutschen Juden einzutreten und sich ihrer anzunehmen, stehen sie ihm in beliebiger Anzahl zur Verfügung.

Anti-German foreigners/sentiment would do well to leave this problem and its solution up to the Germans themselves and, inasfar as they feel the need to get involved, there are plenty of ways to stand up for the German Jews and take on/support their cause.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2017-08-31 17:48:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

feel I have to provide my reading, as I'm very involved with many German and Austrian Jews now living in Argentina and I have also lived and appreciated 15 years in post-war Germany, so I feel I have a rounded view of the situation

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-08-31 17:53:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I don'
I have already agreed with Michael's suggestion, so in no way am I looking for "points" here






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2017-08-31 21:50:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

do I get commission lol?
Something went wrong...
21 hrs

take them in

I agree with Ramey, but have not seen a complete sentence I like.

I think 'take them in' fits here (as opposed to a more metaphorical translation), as it's followed by the offer of an unlimited number of Jews (to take in).

I don't get cynicism, but aggression and hostility, as well as a derisive attitude towards the Jews. I think my proposed translation gets both across.

If you wanted to stress the derisive attitude more, you could also use 'to take care of them.'

Hope this helps.

Example sentence:

Countries hostile to Germany, however, would be well advised to leave this problem and its solution to the Germans themselves. To the extent they feel compelled to defend the Jews and take them in, they can have as many of them as they would like.

Something went wrong...
+3
1 hr

take them in

The cynicism of the source text should also be reflected in the translation

Foreigners opposing Germany would be well advised to leave solving this problem to the Germans themselves. Anyone feeling the need to stand up for German Jews and , well, there's plenty to go around.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-08-31 17:55:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

CORRECTION

Foreigners opposing Germany would be well advised to leave solving this problem to the Germans themselves. Anyone feeling the need to stand up for German Jews and take them in, well, there's plenty (of them) to go around.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2017-09-01 14:23:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I can understand how the beginning could be misinterpreted, and offer the following revision:
Foreign countries hostile to Germany would be well advised to leave solving this problem to the Germans themselves. Anyone feeling the need to stand up for German Jews and take them in, well, there's plenty (of them) to go around.

The rest is fine.
Peer comment(s):
agree Herbmione Granger : Take them into their hearts and homes, basically.// Thanks for explaining :)
14 hrs
Which some did! Taking on, in this context would mean something like 'battling' -take on a challenge, a dare, etc.
agree philipp kieffer
17 hrs
Thanks, Philipp!
agree Martin Ris
20 hrs
Mercí, Martin!
Something went wrong...
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