Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

a rischio Stato, a rischio Repubblica

English translation:

A gamble at the expense of the State, of the Republic

Added to glossary by natydanila
Jan 20, 2011 07:43
13 yrs ago
Italian term

Discussion

natydanila (asker) Jan 20, 2011:
Questo vantaggio economico ci è stato presentato attraverso una operazione assolutamente non rischiosa, che voleva dire - così ci era stata presentata o così l’avevo capita io - come un porsi a rischio Stato, a rischio Repubblica, che praticamente aveva lo stesso merito di credito, ha lo stesso merito di credito del Comune di Milano. this iare the lines.
James (Jim) Davis Jan 20, 2011:
Can you please paste in the surrounding five or six lines of the text and give the type of document. And give the type of document. These are not standard Italian financial terms, so perhaps it relates to another country. "Rischio di stato" would seem to suggest "country risk" "rather than "sovereign risk" (closely related but different concepts)
natydanila (asker) Jan 20, 2011:
it's about a bank transaction. But I maybe found the term: sovereign risk, something like that.
James (Jim) Davis Jan 20, 2011:
Need as much context as possible please? This does not look like ordinary financial text. It looks more like politics or economics.

Proposed translations

-1
2 hrs
Selected

A gamble at the expense of the State, of the Republic

The essential point here is the notion of risk. IN English, this would be better rendered by "gamble"; the language is very heated, and to render it by "an operation that endangers the state" is to cool it down considerably. Also, there is no alternative between State and Republic: it is a rhetorical reduplication intended to strengthen that already severe notion of gambling with fundamental things. In Italian, both Stato and Repubblica are words more emotionally charged than their English equivalent - the proper equivalent would be something like "this country" or the like, or, to Americans, "the Constitution". The writer is using every loaded and weight-bearing expression that can be packed in a short turn of phrase to convey the urgency of what s/he feels.
Peer comment(s):

disagree James (Jim) Davis : Now that the points are gone, I will disagree, because it makes no sense at all in the context. How can a risk free transaction mean a gamble at the expense of the State and the Republic with the same creditworthiness as the City of Milan?
10 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
20 mins

endangering the state, endangering the republic

Low confidence because of lack of context. It might be an operation that endangers the state; _or_ it might be the operation that is endangered in case the state is endangered by something else, in which case this proposal is unsuitable.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Fabio Barbieri : What is wrong here is that the repetition really says the same thing, that is, that you should not think as though "State" is alternative to "Republic". What it means is "This endangers the state, the republic". Otherwise, OK.
1 hr
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-1
57 mins

jeopardising /jeopardizing both the State and the Republic

nel senso di "being at stake" usato in senso figurato anche per concetti astratti
Peer comment(s):

neutral Fabio Barbieri : There is no "both" here, since the State and the Republic are one and the same. This is a rhetorical reduplication, such as "you brought joy, you made us happy".
1 hr
agreement on the rethoric, but state doesn't mean necessarily Republic
disagree James (Jim) Davis : Now that the points are gone, I will disagree, because it makes no sense at all in the context. How can a risk free transaction mean jeopardising /jeopardizing both the State and the Republic with the same creditworthiness as the City of Milan?
10 days
right with more lines around, I translated literally
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2 hrs

sovereign risk

From the additional context, I think you can safely go with this for both stato and repubblica. The person is not speaking as a financial expert would. The "merito di credito" is the creditworthiness of the City of Milan, which is more or less the same credit rating as that of the Italian government. Until recently sovereign risk was considered the "risk free" rate, but these days with Greece, Ireland and now Portugal at risk of default this is no longer so true.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Fabio Barbieri : This would simply murder the heated intensity of the original. Remember that the author is speaking with great anger.
20 mins
I think you should read the extra context that the asker has given. There is no "heated intensity" in it that I can see, just a lack of familiarity with financial terms.
agree Michael Brennen : With Jim on this one. I see nothing about placing the state/republic existentially at risk; "che ... aveva lo stesso merito di credito" is about the risk of financial instrument(s) issued by the state, not the state per se.
8 hrs
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4 hrs

the risk of which is undertaken by the State (Italian Republic)

presumably, a transaction the risk of which is undertaken by the State (Italian Republic)
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