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Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

черная одежда не спасет, белая не клянет

English translation:

While a black cassock will not bring salvation, a white one will not lead to perdition.

Added to glossary by Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
Nov 11, 2014 23:12
9 yrs ago
Russian term

черная одежда не спасет, белая не клянет

Russian to English Art/Literary Idioms / Maxims / Sayings sayings
Белая одежда, черная одежда. Стал читать, думая что реально сейчас разнесут его речь, а тут ерунда.

I assume the above proverb is what the statement is referencing. All help appreciated!
Proposed translations (English)
1 While a black cassock will not bring salvation, a white one will not lead to perdition.
References
сущность - наружность
Change log

Nov 12, 2014 13:13: Natalia Volkova changed "Field" from "Social Sciences" to "Art/Literary" , "Field (specific)" from "Slang" to "Idioms / Maxims / Sayings"

Dec 2, 2014 22:38: Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Created KOG entry

Discussion

danya Nov 12, 2014:
here's my best guess Clothes, schmothes... [He] started reading as he thought they'd trample his speech into the dirt, and there's this nonsense instead.
Michael Marcoux (asker) Nov 12, 2014:
The rest of the material to be translated has nothing to do with that first sentence - more context would be confusing and irrelevant. The deadline is fast approaching, so I wrote "Expect one thing, get another." Perhaps the proofreader will have more insight.
katerina turevich Nov 12, 2014:
Хотя, в словаре Даля есть и такое http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/dahl_proverbs/27602/Черная
katerina turevich Nov 12, 2014:
maybe it's a mistake, and what is meant is не клюнет

http://znaniya2011.ru/otkuda-poshli-vyirazheniya/istoriya-vy...

In that case, the meaning stays the same ('it can go either way'), but it becomes a bit clearer
danya Nov 12, 2014:
@Michael This phrase just HAS to be referring to something in the review of the author's / character's speech.
He started reading the review with an apprehension that there would be some severe criticism, but he finds ерунда instead, and this ерунда obviuosly sums up some passage about clothes and colours in that review that he thinks is not relevant.

And yes, a bigger chunk of the text would help, too
El oso Nov 12, 2014:
@Michael
Apparently, it doesn’t:
As I currently happen to be in Kazakhstan, I had a chance to ask a few Kazakh colleagues (native speakers of both Kazakh and Russian) and guess what – they couldn’t remember any Kazakh saying or proverb featuring white and black clothes.
Michael Marcoux (asker) Nov 12, 2014:
I wonder if the phrase means something in Kazakh?...
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Nov 12, 2014:
I asked a few Russian friends too, and they never heard of it too (could not see their shoulders over the telephone). However, the maxim can be found in many compilations. Its relation to the rest of the text, if any, is a different puzzle.
Michael Marcoux (asker) Nov 12, 2014:
The only additional context I can add is that the speaker was comparing someone's speech, that was being torn apart by a critic, to another speech someone else gave that people were unfairly criticizing. The sentence was written by a Kazakh, hence its odd syntax

I searched far and wide for a definition and even asked some Russian friends, but everyone shrugged their shoulders - they said they'd never heard it. I did find some entries in dictionaries, but with no definitions, or ones that made little sense.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Nov 12, 2014:
See here:
Черная не спасет, белая не клянет
Черная одежда не спасет
Черная ряса не спасет, а белая в грех не введет.
Черная собака, белая собака, а все один пес
http://sayings.ru/proverb/prov23p4.html

Perhaps, it was to be собака? White, black - it is all the same?

Or simply - Белая одежда, черная одежда - "it can go either way."
Still, the question was was about черная одежда не спасет, белая не клянет.
The Misha Nov 12, 2014:
This is neither a known idiom nor an easily recognizable reference. Post more context, we'll take a look. Raznesut here means pull apart, in the sense of criticize, but that's about the only thing that makes sense in this sentence.

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Selected

While a black cassock will not bring salvation, a white one will not lead to perdition.

This one makes more sense to me:
Черная ряса не спасет, а белая в грех не введет.
http://sayings.ru/proverb/prov23p4.html

What the statement is referencing is beyond me.
Белая одежда, черная одежда sounds like "to be or not to be," "this way or that way" (a dilemma), but that is another question.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2014-11-12 02:28:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

From the same source:
Черная не спасет, белая не клянет
Черная одежда не спасет
Черная ряса не спасет, а белая в грех не введет.
Черная собака, белая собака, а все один пес
http://sayings.ru/proverb/prov23p4.html
Peer comment(s):
neutral The Misha : Nothing against you personally, but it looks like someone made up most of the stuff on that list to fill up their quota for the letter Ch. Really, some of it is really, really bizarre, including this black clothes/white clothes thing.
9 mins
It is OK, The Misha. The saying exists but may have nothing with the sentence that follows. Is it literal or more figurative, I am sure we will find out in the ensuing discussion. It ought to be lively. Stay tuned.
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.

Reference comments

8 hrs
Reference:

сущность - наружность

Not sure is this is helpful and to what extent (if any) this meaning relates to the saying and the statement after it. But if this reference is useful then maybe this proverb in English conveys a similar meaning: Don't judge a book by its cover
Reference:

http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/dahl_proverbs/27601/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F

http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/dahl_proverbs/151/%D0%A1%D0%A3%D0%A9%D0%9D%D0%9E%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%AC

Note from asker:
I ran into that - I can see how you can derive that from the proverb, I just don't see how to work that into the translation...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree DTSM : appearances can be deceiving
5 hrs
Thank you :-)
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