Victor Zagria (asker) Sep 1, 2009:

the discussion is worth a course in practical translation. Thank you, everybody!

Alexandra Taggart Aug 31, 2009:

"This is no time for"- relaxation? rumination? No.The academicians simply are off schedule,they are like "off time equipment", they are not the required types of speakers

Tevah_Trans Aug 31, 2009:

What's an expression for "here we go again"? "Academic" is not the same as "академик" just like "confused" is not the same as "сконфуженный". That's the point I've been trying to relate in this discussion - and I think Alexandra has got it nailed.

Judith Hehir Aug 31, 2009:

Alexandra "This is no time for academics!" clearly conveys that the input of academic(ians)s is unwelcome. They need not apply, to use another well worn expression.

Tevah_Trans Aug 31, 2009:

To Alexandra YES!!! Exactly. That's what I was trying to relate, apparently not very successfully.

Alexandra Taggart Aug 31, 2009:

"Xxxxx - академик is a practitioner who has a scientific degree of academician:that is only one adequate meaning in Russian and it does not mean anything else."An academic" (as "educator" in a sarcastic tone) is suitable here except that the sentence does not tell about bad time for academics,it says that the academics are not terribly welcome at the moment."Cейчас не время"="it's not their turn" as they should kind of keep away from the main stage.

Susan Welsh Aug 31, 2009:

To Maria People who are not academics are more likely, of course, to use the word negatively than people who are themselves academics! And yes, you would not refer to a researcher outside the university as an academic, unless he/she THOUGHT and acted in a stuffy, blocked way. In that case, you certainly could use that term, negatively.

To be clear: "academic" as a noun can either be a straightforward description, or an insult. It depends on the context. In our context here, everybody agrees that it's meant negatively.

Maria Fokin Aug 31, 2009:

and nick, that's the way i understood the phrase as well. as a reference to fact that академики are slow to act being so detached from the world and preoccupied with research and getting more and more proof. this, however, is equally true of academics. so although академик and academic are not the same, in this case, it works. no?
susan, i did not mean to imply that only scientist are academics, it came out wrong, and i meant scientists in the university setting. :-)
however, academic very often has a negative connotation?? sure, it can have a negative connotation (especially in humanities) but that is not true for the natural sciences. I have been part of academia for over five years during my postgraduate education and never came across academic used in a negative way (in ref to geologists, chemists, biologists etc.) so saying very often is in my opinion an exaggeration.
and you would never call a researcher outside the university an academic (again, i speak only for the natural sciences)

Judith Hehir Aug 31, 2009:

I don't mean to suggest that the author made an error. I happen to agree with Nick that despite the use of the words для академиков, the author's message is likely, "It's not theory or рассуждения that we need at this point. We need action!" How Victor chooses to translate this is up to Victor, but "academicians" (and other such epithets, I might add) здесь не звучит. Here Rachel's point is well taken.

Tevah_Trans Aug 31, 2009:

With all due respect I disagree. I simply don't see how the author could have intended "academics" as a singular noun when he clearly said для академиков meaning plural, academicians. Your phrase could be translated back as 'сейчас не время для рассуждений' which is not at all the original source meaning.

Judith Hehir Aug 31, 2009:

That is likely the underlying meaning (see Nick's suggestion and note), though it is not what is actually said. "Academics" leaves room for both interpretations, which is likely what the writer intended.

Tevah_Trans Aug 31, 2009:

except, Judith, that... when I look at your phrase (which is a fine phrase by the way), I could translate it back or interpret it to myself as "now is not the time for theories" as opposed to the source meaning it's not the time for the theorISTS. Big difference, in my mind.

Judith Hehir Aug 31, 2009:

Academics: two possible interpretations 1) plural of academic, i.e., individuals
2)academics, the scholarly activities of a school or university, as classroom studies or research projects: more emphasis on academics and less on athletics (dictionary.com)

Susan Welsh Aug 31, 2009:

English meaning of "an academic" is not necessarily a scientist. It is anybody who works in an academic (university) environment as a professional, or who THINKS in those terms, even if they are not a professional. And it very often has a negative connotation: thus, an "academic discussion" is very often one in which people pontificate about all sorts of things and do nothing. So, I think "academics" is fine for this context, and agree with Judith's translation.

Nick Grekov (X) Aug 31, 2009:

Because there's irony in the original text, that doesn't mean that the speaker meant exactly academicians, he just stood for more practical steps, for some active measures and not for discussing the theory of economy, for instance. Hope I made myself a little bit more clear.

Maria Fokin Aug 31, 2009:

what is the difference? can you explain what is the difference in your mind?
an academic in the english sense is someone who is a scientist by vocation, who does scientific work in all fields and publishes and presents that work (and not all scientists nor академики are theoreticians, by the way). so other than the obvious absence of an all encompassing organization to which all scientists across fields belong I don't see much difference in the overall job description. what am i missing?

Nick Grekov (X) Aug 31, 2009:

Yes, I totally agree with you and I tried to retain the sense without this word-to-word translations. I still consider my answer as correct and now I'm even more sure about it

Tevah_Trans Aug 31, 2009:

академик is not the same as academic imho like I said elsewhere, this isn't one of the things that can be directly translated via transliteration - much like "confused" is not the same as "сконфуженный".