Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Indonesian term or phrase:
ternyata bahwa
English translation:
it is stated that
Added to glossary by
Catherine Muir
Aug 6, 2002 21:23
21 yrs ago
41 viewers *
Indonesian term
ternyata bahwa ... telah lahir/meninggal dunia
Indonesian to English
Law/Patents
birth and death certificates
In Indonesian birth and death certificates, the phrase "ternyata bahwa ... telah lahir/meninggal dunia" appears. I have seen it translated as "the record shows that", "it is evident that". However, as "ternyata mati" means "pronounced dead", I am wondering how others have dealt with this phrase "ternyata bahwa" in this context.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +3 | it appears that” or “the record shows that”. |
eldira
|
| 5 +1 | ternyata bahwa -- it is certified that |
Joel Levine
|
| 5 +1 | it turned out that |
R.J.Chadwick (X)
|
| 1 +1 | It is certified that |
nuvo
|
Proposed translations
+3
10 hrs
Selected
it appears that” or “the record shows that”.
In Indonesia, there are two systems of recording births and deaths.
There is the legal system where all newborns and deaths have to be registered with the Civil Registry, and appropriate documents are issued (an “akta kelahiran” / birth certificate or “akta kematian” / death certificate) both are legal documents and as such bear the designation “akta” or “deed”. This applies to towns and cities, and most educated Indonesians conform to it.
There is also the system applied in villages and smaller towns, where a statement from the village head (kepala desa), sub-sub-district head (camat) or sub-distric head (lurah) is sufficient.
So for an akta kelahiran, the words ternyata bahwa …. telah lahir could be translated as “it appears that” or “the record shows that”.
For a death certificate, telah meninggal dunia is usually translated as ‘has passed away’ or ‘has died’. The complete sentence would be something like: ‘ternyata bahwa di Jakarta pada tanggal dua September seribu sembilan ratus delapan puluh empat, telah meninggal dunia: - Name of Deceased ….‘ – which is usually translated as ‘ it appears that in Jakarta on the second day of September year thousand nine hundred and eighty four, has passed away: - Name of Deceased ….’
“Ternyata mati” could mean “pronounced dead” – but could also mean DOA – dead on arrival, and would only appear on a hospital report, a police report or on “death certificates” issued by the local village head, sub-district chief, sub-sub-district chief, in which the wording is not regulated by law.
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Note added at 2002-08-07 08:27:38 (GMT)
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I should add that the proper English translation is for you to decide - based on above explanation. And I would very much appreciate it if you would inform me what you have choosen as the right one.
There is the legal system where all newborns and deaths have to be registered with the Civil Registry, and appropriate documents are issued (an “akta kelahiran” / birth certificate or “akta kematian” / death certificate) both are legal documents and as such bear the designation “akta” or “deed”. This applies to towns and cities, and most educated Indonesians conform to it.
There is also the system applied in villages and smaller towns, where a statement from the village head (kepala desa), sub-sub-district head (camat) or sub-distric head (lurah) is sufficient.
So for an akta kelahiran, the words ternyata bahwa …. telah lahir could be translated as “it appears that” or “the record shows that”.
For a death certificate, telah meninggal dunia is usually translated as ‘has passed away’ or ‘has died’. The complete sentence would be something like: ‘ternyata bahwa di Jakarta pada tanggal dua September seribu sembilan ratus delapan puluh empat, telah meninggal dunia: - Name of Deceased ….‘ – which is usually translated as ‘ it appears that in Jakarta on the second day of September year thousand nine hundred and eighty four, has passed away: - Name of Deceased ….’
“Ternyata mati” could mean “pronounced dead” – but could also mean DOA – dead on arrival, and would only appear on a hospital report, a police report or on “death certificates” issued by the local village head, sub-district chief, sub-sub-district chief, in which the wording is not regulated by law.
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Note added at 2002-08-07 08:27:38 (GMT)
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I should add that the proper English translation is for you to decide - based on above explanation. And I would very much appreciate it if you would inform me what you have choosen as the right one.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to all who contributed. I felt that the sense of 'ternyata' was more neutral than 'certified', meaning only that the record 'states' such and so. I used a neutral 'it is stated that' rather than any of the suggestions, but this answer was closest to my gut feeling about it. Many, many thanks for letting me pick your brains."
+1
2 hrs
ternyata bahwa -- it is certified that
Declined
ternyata bahwa --- I usually translate it as "it is certified that" since the document is a legal certificate.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
R.J.Chadwick (X)
2 hrs
|
Comment: "'Ternyata' does not mean 'certified', merely 'stated'."
+1
2 hrs
R.J.Chadwick (X)
R.J.Chadwick (X)
Works in: Indonesian to English, Malay to English, English to Indonesian, and 1 more.
View
Related KudoZ points
:
6
it turned out that
Declined
You won't like this answer -- and I don't want any points for it.
My experience of "ternyata" in everyday language is that it is used in the same sense as the the English phrase: "... it turned out that ..".
Literally, it cannot mean "it is declared that" because it does not have (and cannot have?) an immediate subject -- you would need "dinyatakan" for that. ("Declared" in English and "menyakatan" in Indonesian find it difficult to survive in subject-less sentences.)
It also cannot mean "it is certified that" because the certificate itself is what certifies -- or the body/person authorizing the certificate.
Having said all that I have no doubt that the EFFECT (sorry to shout) of the word is to say "it is declared that". Personally I would prefer "was found to be dead" -- because that is what it would mean in everyday usage. But we all know that legalese is a language all of its known.
I have not translated a death certificate for a long time and do not have any translations to hand.
I would say just use your good judgement in this case.
So why am I answering this question? I just wanted to have my say, I suppose.
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Note added at 2002-08-07 00:55:06 (GMT)
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di-nayata-kan -- needs an overt subject or implies a definite subject, even if it does not appear in the sentence.
ter-nyata -- implies an absence of agency explicit or implicit (it just WAS so); or, more rarely, where this a logical subject/agent then it would still imply a lack of agency or at least a lack of responsibility and intentionality.
This is off the top of my head -- best to consult a good grammar than to take my word for all this.
Finally: \"was found to have died\" or even better \"was found to have passed away\" would be preferable to \"was found to be dead\" which sounds a bit abrupt.
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Note added at 2002-08-08 13:08:30 (GMT)
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I meant
\"di-nyata-kan\"
and
\"me-nyata-kan\"
My experience of "ternyata" in everyday language is that it is used in the same sense as the the English phrase: "... it turned out that ..".
Literally, it cannot mean "it is declared that" because it does not have (and cannot have?) an immediate subject -- you would need "dinyatakan" for that. ("Declared" in English and "menyakatan" in Indonesian find it difficult to survive in subject-less sentences.)
It also cannot mean "it is certified that" because the certificate itself is what certifies -- or the body/person authorizing the certificate.
Having said all that I have no doubt that the EFFECT (sorry to shout) of the word is to say "it is declared that". Personally I would prefer "was found to be dead" -- because that is what it would mean in everyday usage. But we all know that legalese is a language all of its known.
I have not translated a death certificate for a long time and do not have any translations to hand.
I would say just use your good judgement in this case.
So why am I answering this question? I just wanted to have my say, I suppose.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-07 00:55:06 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
di-nayata-kan -- needs an overt subject or implies a definite subject, even if it does not appear in the sentence.
ter-nyata -- implies an absence of agency explicit or implicit (it just WAS so); or, more rarely, where this a logical subject/agent then it would still imply a lack of agency or at least a lack of responsibility and intentionality.
This is off the top of my head -- best to consult a good grammar than to take my word for all this.
Finally: \"was found to have died\" or even better \"was found to have passed away\" would be preferable to \"was found to be dead\" which sounds a bit abrupt.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-08 13:08:30 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I meant
\"di-nyata-kan\"
and
\"me-nyata-kan\"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Katriana Vader
12 hrs
|
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Thank you for your support
|
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| neutral |
Kardi Kho
: and it's 'dinyatakan' not 'dinayatakan', it's 'menyatakan' not 'menyakatan'.
1 day 1 hr
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|
Thank you for pointing out those typos
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| neutral |
Anthony Indra
: Careful, many Indonesian legal letters are still using the old grammar (before EYD). That
1 day 12 hrs
|
|
Thank you for your timely caution.
|
+1
4 hrs
It is certified that
Declined
All of the previous translations (including yours) are good. However, as it is for legal document: "It is certified that.." is more common.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
R.J.Chadwick (X)
1 day 11 hrs
|
Comment: "'Ternyata' does not mean 'certified', merely 'stated'."
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