Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

DOM-COM

English translation:

overseas departments and collectivities

Added to glossary by Angelina Galanska
Apr 22, 2017 05:22
7 yrs ago
31 viewers *
French term

DOM-COM

French to English Other Government / Politics in a tax returns doc
Investissements dans les DOM-COM
Change log

Apr 22, 2017 06:39: writeaway changed "Field" from "Bus/Financial" to "Other" , "Field (write-in)" from "Tax returns" to "in a tax returns doc"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Yolanda Broad

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Proposed translations

+4
4 hrs
Selected

overseas departments and collectivities

Just because there have been a few mistranslations doesn't make something right. I've always translated COM as "collectivity"

http://eurovoc.europa.eu/drupal/?q=request&uri=http://eurovo...

http://uk.france.fr/en/information/french-overseas-territori...
Often named by the acronym DROM-COM, the ‘Overseas Departments and Regions – Overseas Collectivities’ refer collectively to all land under French sovereignty outside mainland France: The Islands of Guadeloupe, Martinique, Saint-Martin, Saint-Barthélemy, Saint Pierre and Miquelon (Atlantic Ocean) Reunion island, Mayotte, the French Southern and Antarctic Lands (Indian Ocean) French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna (Pacific Ocean) The French Overseas Territories cover almost 120 000 km² and are home to more than 2.6 million people.

and the CIA use "collectivity" as well

https://books.google.ie/books?id=JeQgfyJ5FLgC&pg=PA536&lpg=P...

I would not use "commonwealth" here at all
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commonwealth

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-04-22 10:15:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think using "commonwealth" would be absolutely wrong in fact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth
"...three countries – Australia, the Bahamas, and Dominica – have the official title "Commonwealth", as do four U.S. states and two U.S. territories. More recently, the term has been used to name some fraternal associations of nations, most notably the Commonwealth of Nations, an organization primarily of former territories of the British Empire, which is often referred to as simply "the Commonwealth".
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway : commonwealth is dead wrong. agree.
51 mins
Thank you!
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I can but agree with "collectivities". It underlines its specific Frenchness. "Commonwealth" is equally specific to Britain and the US, and there are differences there too; it is inappropriate for France.
4 hrs
Thank you!
agree AllegroTrans : I would probably prefix this with "French" to avoid any doubt; this is virtually an "official" translation and certainly one which is used in bilingual Canada
4 hrs
Thanks:-) Yes, it wouldn't hurt to add "French"
agree B D Finch
6 hrs
Thanks:-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-2
21 mins

overseas departments and communities

Départements d'Outre-Mer (DOM) - Collectivités d'Outre-Mer (COM)

Therefore, "investments in overseas departments and communities"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-22 07:17:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

With due respect for the feelings of local inhabitants, account should be taken of established terminology: cf. "The French concept of the nation has not prevented France either from seeking to respect local specificities, especially in the overseas departments and regions (DOM/ROM) and the
overseas communities (COM)." (Report of France to the United Nations Economic and Social
Council on the IMPLEMENTATION OF THE INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL RIGHTS - document E/C.12/FRA/3, 15 March 2007)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-04-22 09:44:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The passage quoted is easy to access. Just google "E/C.12/FRA/3" English.
Peer comment(s):

agree nweatherdon
46 mins
neutral Catharine Cellier-Smart : as an inhabitant of a DOM, albeit not a COM, I wouldn't translate "collectivités d'outre-mer" by 'communities', it doesn't communicate the legal status // can't see any note
1 hr
Insufficient space here. Please see the note I just added.
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : overseas departments and collectivities: keep the Frenchness to reatin the specificity. "COM" is often translated as "community" as it's a nice easy fit for COM. But "community" is an undertranslation for the French admin notion of "collectivité".
2 hrs
disagree Rob Grayson : Agree with Nikki's comment above
2 hrs
disagree mrrafe : Commonwealth in lieu of community. Please see comment below
2 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : NOT Communities and NOT Commonwealth
9 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

fyi

Des DOM-TOM aux DOM-COM
La notion de "DOM-TOM", bien que couramment employée, n'a plus cours depuis la révision constitutionnelle de 2003. Il existe toujours quatre départements d'outre-mer. En revanche, la notion de territoire d'outre-mer a disparu pour être remplacée par celle de collectivité d'outre-mer.

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2007/07/02/des-dom-tom...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-22 06:43:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Some, however remain attached to France. Les DOM-COM (formerly known as les DOM-TOM) stand for “Departements D’Outre-Mer” and “Collectivités D’Outre-Mer” In other words, Over-Seas Departments and Collectivities.
https://french1412.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/les-domcom/
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Catharine Cellier-Smart
11 mins
disagree Jordan Arzoglou : Insufficient space here. Please see the note I just added.
1 hr
agree Rob Grayson
1 hr
agree Yvonne Gallagher
3 hrs
agree Rachel Fell : http://www.cluster-maritime.fr/en/maritime-economy/574/overs...
4 hrs
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne
8 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs
Reference:

Notion of "collectivité"

https://www.insee.fr/fr/metadonnees/definition/c1353


Définition

Les collectivités territoriales sont des structures administratives françaises, distinctes de l'administration de l'État, qui doivent prendre en charge les intérêts de la population d'un territoire précis.
Sont définies comme collectivités territoriales :
- les communes ;
- les départements auxquels s'ajoutent les cinq départements d'outre-mer (Dom);
- les régions auxquelles s'ajoutent également cinq régions d'outre-mer ;
- les collectivités à statut particulier ;
- les collectivités d'outre-mer (Com).

La Nouvelle-Calédonie (archipel d'Océanie situé en Mélanésie) est une collectivité dite sui generis (« de son propre genre »), à savoir une collectivité territoriale de la République française et non pas une collectivité d'outre-mer (Com).
Remarque

L'expression collectivité locale désigne dans le langage courant ce que la Constitution nomme « collectivité territoriale ». En effet, jusqu'à la révision constitutionnelle du 28 mars 2003, les deux termes apparaissaient dans la Constitution : collectivité locale à l'article 34 et collectivité territoriale au titre XII. Mais depuis seule cette dernière expression figure dans la Constitution. Les collectivités sont donc désormais des « collectivités territoriales », l'expression « collectivité locale », n'étant plus juridiquement fondée.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2017-04-22 08:01:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Use of the term "collectivity" in English when describing the DOM-COM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_collectivity

The French overseas collectivities (French: collectivité d'outre-mer or COM), like the French regions, are first-order administrative divisions of France. The COMs include some former French overseas territories and other French overseas entities with a particular status, all of which became COMs by constitutional reform on 28 March 2003. The COMs should not be confused with the overseas regions and overseas departments, which have no particular status. As integral parts of France, overseas collectivities are represented in the National Assembly, Senate and Economic and Social Council. Only one COM, Saint Martin, is part of the European Union and can vote to elect members of the European Parliament (MEP). The Pacific COMs use the CFP franc, a currency pegged to the euro, whereas the Atlantic COMs use the euro directly. As of 31 March 2011, there were five COMs:
French Polynesia became a COM in 2003. Its statutory law of 27 February 2004 gives it the designation of overseas country inside the Republic (French: pays d'outre-mer au sein de la République, or POM), but without legal modification of its status. French Polynesia has a great degree of autonomy, two symbolic manifestations of which are the title of the President of French Polynesia (Le président de la Polynésie française) and its additional designation as a pays d'outre-mer. Legislature: Assembly of French Polynesia since 2004.
Saint Barthélemy, an island in the Lesser Antilles. St. Barthelemy was separated from the overseas department of Guadeloupe in 2007. It has a territorial council and executive council, and with separation ceased to be part of the European Union.
Saint Martin, the northern part of the island of Saint Martin in the Lesser Antilles. St. Martin was separated from the overseas department of Guadeloupe in 2007. It has a territorial council and executive council, and with separation remained a part of the European Union.
Saint Pierre and Miquelon, a group of islands in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada. It has a territorial council. It is the last remaining part of New France not ceded by France.
Wallis and Futuna, three small islands in the Pacific Ocean. Has a high administrator and territorial assembly.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2017-04-22 08:06:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Comment :
In spite of some official sources having an English version where "community" is usesd for COM, do bear in mind that "collectivité" is the term being conveyed. "Community" is used (misused) even officially, as it is a convenient fit. However, it is insufficient to render what is meant by "collectivité" in all its adminsitrative glory!



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2017-04-22 14:35:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A shared, dare I say collective, or common, note here to comment on the use of "commonwealth/Commonwealth". I've used Wikipedia with all the usual caveats, but just for sake of speed here. I do not consider "commonwealth" to be an appropriate term for the French term "collectivité" of "DOM-COM"; here's why.

Britain and the US use the term, and each already has a slightly different meaning. For the US, the term "commonwealth" confers no special political status or legal relationship upon the states concerned, for example. With reference to US insular areas, the political/legal situation is as with the four states. Additionally, insular areas under US sovereignty will self-govern and have their own constitution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_(U.S._state)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_(U.S._insular_are...
As for the British Commonwealth (Commonwealth of Nations), there is a different idea again. It is an intergovernmental organisation, with no legal obligation to one another, but are shared values (e.g. the rule of law), set out in the terms of a charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

The notion of what meant by "commonwealth" in reference to the US (States, insular areas) and to Britain is not identical. Different histories, different politics, different administrations. In my opinion, it is inappropriate to use the term for France.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2017-04-22 14:49:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just for fun, I Googled "commonwealth+*.fr":
Commonwealth — Wikipédia
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth
Le Commonwealth ou Commonwealth of Nations (littéralement, la « Communauté des Nations .... Ensuite, la création du Commonwealth Fund for Technical Co-operation (CFTC) qui permet une coopération technique pour les pays membres.
Chef du Commonwealth‎: ‎Élisabeth II Ancien nom‎: ‎Commonwealth britannique
Membres‎: ‎52 États Siège‎: ‎Marlborough House‎, ‎Londres, Royaum...
Royaume du Commonwealth — Wikipédia
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royaume_du_Commonwealth
Les royaumes du Commonwealth (anglais : Commonwealth realms) sont les ...
Liste des États membres du Commonwealth — Wikipédia
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_États_membres_du_Com...
Le Commonwealth est une association volontaire de 52 États souverains. Parmi les États membres : 16 sont des monarchies avec ... Liste des États membres du ..

The term stays as is.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2017-04-22 14:51:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Literally, "richesse commune".
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral mrrafe : I think FR collectivite is what we in USA call a commonwealth, e.g., Commonwealth of Massachusetts, or of Puerto Rico. The connotation is almost exactly similar, viz. a collectivization.
20 mins
There are similarities and differences, but each term is country-specific and tansplanting one to the other is risky.
disagree Jordan Arzoglou : This is a matter not of personal preference but of established terminology. Cf. the report of France to the United Nations in my note.
1 hr
Where there is officially established terminology, I agree there is no choice. My point is that one report to the UN does not establish an official term. It is one translator's choice for that report; other UN rep. may be different again.
agree Yvonne Gallagher
2 hrs
agree writeaway : to offset the disagree
2 hrs
I'm not allergic to disagrees, but cheers anyway. ;-)
agree AllegroTrans
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search