Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
DOM-COM
English translation:
overseas departments and collectivities
French term
DOM-COM
4 +4 | overseas departments and collectivities | Yvonne Gallagher |
5 -2 | overseas departments and communities | Jordan Arzoglou |
Apr 22, 2017 06:39: writeaway changed "Field" from "Bus/Financial" to "Other" , "Field (write-in)" from "Tax returns" to "in a tax returns doc"
Non-PRO (1): Yolanda Broad
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Proposed translations
overseas departments and collectivities
http://eurovoc.europa.eu/drupal/?q=request&uri=http://eurovo...
http://uk.france.fr/en/information/french-overseas-territori...
Often named by the acronym DROM-COM, the ‘Overseas Departments and Regions – Overseas Collectivities’ refer collectively to all land under French sovereignty outside mainland France: The Islands of Guadeloupe, Martinique, Saint-Martin, Saint-Barthélemy, Saint Pierre and Miquelon (Atlantic Ocean) Reunion island, Mayotte, the French Southern and Antarctic Lands (Indian Ocean) French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna (Pacific Ocean) The French Overseas Territories cover almost 120 000 km² and are home to more than 2.6 million people.
and the CIA use "collectivity" as well
https://books.google.ie/books?id=JeQgfyJ5FLgC&pg=PA536&lpg=P...
I would not use "commonwealth" here at all
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commonwealth
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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-04-22 10:15:53 GMT)
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I think using "commonwealth" would be absolutely wrong in fact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth
"...three countries – Australia, the Bahamas, and Dominica – have the official title "Commonwealth", as do four U.S. states and two U.S. territories. More recently, the term has been used to name some fraternal associations of nations, most notably the Commonwealth of Nations, an organization primarily of former territories of the British Empire, which is often referred to as simply "the Commonwealth".
overseas departments and communities
Therefore, "investments in overseas departments and communities"
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-22 07:17:03 GMT)
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With due respect for the feelings of local inhabitants, account should be taken of established terminology: cf. "The French concept of the nation has not prevented France either from seeking to respect local specificities, especially in the overseas departments and regions (DOM/ROM) and the
overseas communities (COM)." (Report of France to the United Nations Economic and Social
Council on the IMPLEMENTATION OF THE INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL RIGHTS - document E/C.12/FRA/3, 15 March 2007)
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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-04-22 09:44:20 GMT)
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The passage quoted is easy to access. Just google "E/C.12/FRA/3" English.
agree |
nweatherdon
46 mins
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neutral |
Catharine Cellier-Smart
: as an inhabitant of a DOM, albeit not a COM, I wouldn't translate "collectivités d'outre-mer" by 'communities', it doesn't communicate the legal status // can't see any note
1 hr
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Insufficient space here. Please see the note I just added.
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neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: overseas departments and collectivities: keep the Frenchness to reatin the specificity. "COM" is often translated as "community" as it's a nice easy fit for COM. But "community" is an undertranslation for the French admin notion of "collectivité".
2 hrs
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disagree |
Rob Grayson
: Agree with Nikki's comment above
2 hrs
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disagree |
mrrafe
: Commonwealth in lieu of community. Please see comment below
2 hrs
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disagree |
AllegroTrans
: NOT Communities and NOT Commonwealth
9 hrs
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Reference comments
fyi
La notion de "DOM-TOM", bien que couramment employée, n'a plus cours depuis la révision constitutionnelle de 2003. Il existe toujours quatre départements d'outre-mer. En revanche, la notion de territoire d'outre-mer a disparu pour être remplacée par celle de collectivité d'outre-mer.
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2007/07/02/des-dom-tom...
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-22 06:43:20 GMT)
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Some, however remain attached to France. Les DOM-COM (formerly known as les DOM-TOM) stand for “Departements D’Outre-Mer” and “Collectivités D’Outre-Mer” In other words, Over-Seas Departments and Collectivities.
https://french1412.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/les-domcom/
agree |
Catharine Cellier-Smart
11 mins
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disagree |
Jordan Arzoglou
: Insufficient space here. Please see the note I just added.
1 hr
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agree |
Rob Grayson
1 hr
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
3 hrs
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agree |
Rachel Fell
: http://www.cluster-maritime.fr/en/maritime-economy/574/overs...
4 hrs
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agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
8 hrs
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agree |
AllegroTrans
8 hrs
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Notion of "collectivité"
Définition
Les collectivités territoriales sont des structures administratives françaises, distinctes de l'administration de l'État, qui doivent prendre en charge les intérêts de la population d'un territoire précis.
Sont définies comme collectivités territoriales :
- les communes ;
- les départements auxquels s'ajoutent les cinq départements d'outre-mer (Dom);
- les régions auxquelles s'ajoutent également cinq régions d'outre-mer ;
- les collectivités à statut particulier ;
- les collectivités d'outre-mer (Com).
La Nouvelle-Calédonie (archipel d'Océanie situé en Mélanésie) est une collectivité dite sui generis (« de son propre genre »), à savoir une collectivité territoriale de la République française et non pas une collectivité d'outre-mer (Com).
Remarque
L'expression collectivité locale désigne dans le langage courant ce que la Constitution nomme « collectivité territoriale ». En effet, jusqu'à la révision constitutionnelle du 28 mars 2003, les deux termes apparaissaient dans la Constitution : collectivité locale à l'article 34 et collectivité territoriale au titre XII. Mais depuis seule cette dernière expression figure dans la Constitution. Les collectivités sont donc désormais des « collectivités territoriales », l'expression « collectivité locale », n'étant plus juridiquement fondée.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-04-22 08:01:21 GMT)
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Use of the term "collectivity" in English when describing the DOM-COM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_collectivity
The French overseas collectivities (French: collectivité d'outre-mer or COM), like the French regions, are first-order administrative divisions of France. The COMs include some former French overseas territories and other French overseas entities with a particular status, all of which became COMs by constitutional reform on 28 March 2003. The COMs should not be confused with the overseas regions and overseas departments, which have no particular status. As integral parts of France, overseas collectivities are represented in the National Assembly, Senate and Economic and Social Council. Only one COM, Saint Martin, is part of the European Union and can vote to elect members of the European Parliament (MEP). The Pacific COMs use the CFP franc, a currency pegged to the euro, whereas the Atlantic COMs use the euro directly. As of 31 March 2011, there were five COMs:
French Polynesia became a COM in 2003. Its statutory law of 27 February 2004 gives it the designation of overseas country inside the Republic (French: pays d'outre-mer au sein de la République, or POM), but without legal modification of its status. French Polynesia has a great degree of autonomy, two symbolic manifestations of which are the title of the President of French Polynesia (Le président de la Polynésie française) and its additional designation as a pays d'outre-mer. Legislature: Assembly of French Polynesia since 2004.
Saint Barthélemy, an island in the Lesser Antilles. St. Barthelemy was separated from the overseas department of Guadeloupe in 2007. It has a territorial council and executive council, and with separation ceased to be part of the European Union.
Saint Martin, the northern part of the island of Saint Martin in the Lesser Antilles. St. Martin was separated from the overseas department of Guadeloupe in 2007. It has a territorial council and executive council, and with separation remained a part of the European Union.
Saint Pierre and Miquelon, a group of islands in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada. It has a territorial council. It is the last remaining part of New France not ceded by France.
Wallis and Futuna, three small islands in the Pacific Ocean. Has a high administrator and territorial assembly.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-04-22 08:06:45 GMT)
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Comment :
In spite of some official sources having an English version where "community" is usesd for COM, do bear in mind that "collectivité" is the term being conveyed. "Community" is used (misused) even officially, as it is a convenient fit. However, it is insufficient to render what is meant by "collectivité" in all its adminsitrative glory!
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Note added at 9 hrs (2017-04-22 14:35:57 GMT)
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A shared, dare I say collective, or common, note here to comment on the use of "commonwealth/Commonwealth". I've used Wikipedia with all the usual caveats, but just for sake of speed here. I do not consider "commonwealth" to be an appropriate term for the French term "collectivité" of "DOM-COM"; here's why.
Britain and the US use the term, and each already has a slightly different meaning. For the US, the term "commonwealth" confers no special political status or legal relationship upon the states concerned, for example. With reference to US insular areas, the political/legal situation is as with the four states. Additionally, insular areas under US sovereignty will self-govern and have their own constitution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_(U.S._state)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_(U.S._insular_are...
As for the British Commonwealth (Commonwealth of Nations), there is a different idea again. It is an intergovernmental organisation, with no legal obligation to one another, but are shared values (e.g. the rule of law), set out in the terms of a charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations
The notion of what meant by "commonwealth" in reference to the US (States, insular areas) and to Britain is not identical. Different histories, different politics, different administrations. In my opinion, it is inappropriate to use the term for France.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2017-04-22 14:49:57 GMT)
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Just for fun, I Googled "commonwealth+*.fr":
Commonwealth — Wikipédia
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth
Le Commonwealth ou Commonwealth of Nations (littéralement, la « Communauté des Nations .... Ensuite, la création du Commonwealth Fund for Technical Co-operation (CFTC) qui permet une coopération technique pour les pays membres.
Chef du Commonwealth: Élisabeth II Ancien nom: Commonwealth britannique
Membres: 52 États Siège: Marlborough House, Londres, Royaum...
Royaume du Commonwealth — Wikipédia
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royaume_du_Commonwealth
Les royaumes du Commonwealth (anglais : Commonwealth realms) sont les ...
Liste des États membres du Commonwealth — Wikipédia
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_États_membres_du_Com...
Le Commonwealth est une association volontaire de 52 États souverains. Parmi les États membres : 16 sont des monarchies avec ... Liste des États membres du ..
The term stays as is.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2017-04-22 14:51:08 GMT)
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Literally, "richesse commune".
neutral |
mrrafe
: I think FR collectivite is what we in USA call a commonwealth, e.g., Commonwealth of Massachusetts, or of Puerto Rico. The connotation is almost exactly similar, viz. a collectivization.
20 mins
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There are similarities and differences, but each term is country-specific and tansplanting one to the other is risky.
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disagree |
Jordan Arzoglou
: This is a matter not of personal preference but of established terminology. Cf. the report of France to the United Nations in my note.
1 hr
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Where there is officially established terminology, I agree there is no choice. My point is that one report to the UN does not establish an official term. It is one translator's choice for that report; other UN rep. may be different again.
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
2 hrs
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agree |
writeaway
: to offset the disagree
2 hrs
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I'm not allergic to disagrees, but cheers anyway. ;-)
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agree |
AllegroTrans
7 hrs
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