Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

noble vices

Turkish translation:

asil günahlar

Added to glossary by SeiTT
Oct 16, 2009 08:15
14 yrs ago
English term

noble vices

English to Turkish Art/Literary Religion Christianity
Greetings,

This is a concept from St. Augustine.

What he believed was that people who did not have the life-changing experience resulting from surrendering one’s life to Jesus Christ could have no real virtues, but only noble vices, i.e. bad points which nevertheless had a certain nobility about them.

I suppose a modern defender of St. Augustine would point to the lack of true democracy and human rights in non-western societies but also the large-scale wickedness in modern Western societies too.

The main example would probably be promiscuity, which often results in abortion, which many Christians see as murder, often perpetrated by non-believers with relatively benign intentions.

However, I certainly wouldn't go so far as to call the wrong things done by believing Christians “base virtues”:)

All the best, and many thanks,

Simon

PS The best I've been able to is “ulu kusur”, but I realize there may well be a far better way of putting it.

Discussion

Faruk Atabeyli Oct 16, 2009:
Ak ve kara İnanç dünyasının karmaşıklığı, çelişkileri muğlaklıkları ve daha nice tutarsızlıkları iki tanıma indirgendiğinde ortaya bağnazlık çıkar. Bu bölümün tamamı zaten neyin ne olduğundan emin olamayan, Aziz Augustine'in düşüncelerini sorgulayan ve yorumlamaya çalışan bir düşünsel metin. İçerisinde bu kadar çok sorgulayıcı ifadeler barındıran bir metin (believed, nevertheless, suppose, probably, however, perpetrated) iki mutlak tanıma indirgenmiş olmanın çok uzağında. Keşke her şey bu kadar basit olsa.<br>Can Yücel'in içip içip sağa sola saydırmasını günaha indirgeyip yok sayabilirsiniz veya bunu kendisinin bir "erdemli zaafı" (Simon, soruna benim önerim bu olurdu) olarak görüp zengin ve renkli kişiliğinin bir parçası kabul edebilirsiniz.<br><br>Ayrıca, "noble vice" sıkça karşılaşılan bir deyim. Yazarın kimseyi alındırmaktan kaçındığı için kullandığı bir ifade olduğunu düşünmüyorum, böyle bir metnin kendisi zaten hassas damarlara basmak zorunda. <br> <br>
Ali Bayraktar Oct 16, 2009:
In all religions everything is reduced to two definitions. You can say good or bad, correct or wrong, yes or no. The theories which go deeply into one of those understandings and assign them degrees such as small, big, much more are deceptive. Because nobody has detailed information about God's logic. You may describe evilness with 1000 words but none of them will change where it belongs to. So I think here, the word vice is used instead of sin. Also I think the author uses the word noble in order not to offend anybody.
Faruk Atabeyli Oct 16, 2009:
Sin vs. vice Günah ve zaafiyet seküler bağlamlarda birbirinin yerine kullanılabilse de semavi dinler her iki kavramı da ayrıştırıyor ve özellikle günahı çok net tanımlıyor. Bu metinde günah doğru olmaz. Zaafiyet veya kusur olabilir.

Proposed translations

+1
17 mins
Selected

asil günahlar

It is about religion, so I would suggest this version.
Peer comment(s):

agree Bumin : Bu bağlamda "günah" kullanılabilir. Zaaf ya da kusur bağlantısız kalır.
4 days
Teşekkür Ederim
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "many thanks excellent - please excuse the delay"
33 mins

soylu kusurlar

It reminds me the Kantian concept of maxim: "if you don't consciously and willingly follow the maxim you are not a good person even if you behave like a good person in your daily life."
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41 mins

affedilebilir günahlar

IMHO
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3 days 14 hrs

asil zaaflar

After reading the below words of St. Augustine, as I found in the link stated further below:

"And the virtues themselves, if they bear no relation to God, are in truth vices rather than virtues; for although they are regarded
by many as truly moral, when they are desired as ends in themselves, and not for the sake of something else, they are, nevertheless, inflated and arrogant, and therefore not to be viewed as virtues but as vices."

http://www.archive.org/stream/conductsupernatu00thorrich/con...

... I propose the expression "asil zaaflar". I think the term "günah", meaning "sin", would change the original meaning significantly, if used for "vice" - I don't think "vice" means "sin" here. My choice of term "zaaf" corresponds to the below meanings of "vice":

moral depravity or corruption : wickedness b : a moral fault or failing c : a habitual and usually trivial defect or shortcoming : foible <suffered from the vice of curiosity>

as defined in merriam-webster.com
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