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confondre le fait avec le droit
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Jul 6, 2021 15:13
2 yrs ago
32 viewers *
French term

Mesures extrapatrimoniales

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Divorce case (France)
This is the heading to the part of the order dealing with the wife's right to revert to her maiden name

A)Mesures extrapatrimoniales : nom d'usage
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Non-financial > E+W non-ancillary > relief orders
3 +1 Extra-patrimonial orders
4 Measures not related [or "unrelated"] to the estate

Discussion

Conor McAuley Jul 7, 2021:
Yes, I agree, in legal documents I see "Mme Duval épouse Dupont" much more often than "Mme Dupont née Duval" (which is more English-language usage of course), but maybe the document is just stating the bleeding obvious (lawyer getting paid by the word haha?).

In any case, the question has been closed without any further explanation.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jul 7, 2021:
"Right" to revert to maiden name? This strikes me as being an odd way round. The maiden name is the "default" name for a married woman and is not a right she loses. However, if she wishes to continue using her married name, that is something that requires the consent of her soon-to-be ex-husband or of the court if the former does not agree. So, if you see what I mean, it seems that the original is couched the "wrong" way round.

Proposed translations

+1
12 mins

Extra-patrimonial orders

I'm not so sure about "orders" but as Adrian uses "order" himself...

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Note added at 13 mins (2021-07-06 15:26:58 GMT)
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ooops, I meant to say" AllegroTrans" and not "Adrian". Sorry
Reference:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjvwfba387xAhUO4YUKHb5LBrMQFjABegQICRAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.law.m

Note from asker:
Thanks, but cannot say I like the translationese Eurobabble sound of this!
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo : "patrimonial = translationese Eurobabble"??? Scottish Parliament should be made aware, so they can give the sack to their law drafters: "patrimonial loss" in https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2011/7/notes/division/3
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

Non-financial > E+W non-ancillary > relief orders

extrapatrimonial : non-precuniary; non-material, Bridge.

Thanks to Safetex for taking my name 'in vain' and rounding off my 'relief'.

Be that as it may, dissenters and dissidents will be waking up parimarily in North America, so we can expect some 'juicy' disagrees.
Example sentence:

IATE: fr action extrapatrimoniale COM en action not relating to property rights COM

Reference:

http://www.ellis-fermor.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Ancillary-Relief-factsheet12.pdf

Note from asker:
Non-pecuniary does it, thank you Adrian
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : changing your name = a relief order?
7 hrs
Yes. It's called 'declaratory relief'. Surely you know this from UK etc. Deed Poll Change-of-name practice > 'He also brings to my notice that in similar matters, the civil courts have been granting the declaratory relief in the matter of change of name.'
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I like "non-pecuniary".
21 hrs
Thanks, Nikki. I ought to have concentrated more closely during UK College of Law Family Law 'lectures' and correspondence course, but I recall financial or ancillary relief only.
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Measures not related [or "unrelated"] to the estate

Someone recently pointed out here that the jointly-owned assets in a marriage are called the estate.
That was a new one on me, so I remembered it.

So...

Since "patrimoine" is basically "estate".

The rest of the document presumably deals with the division of the estate (money issues), custody of the children if there are any, and if they are minors, maintenance (alimony), etc.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2021-07-06 17:31:20 GMT)
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Chris (AllegroTrans), I am getting some hits for "joint estate", for example:

"Can I Use a Will to Protect My Estate from Care Home Fees?https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk › ...
Traduire cette page
12 mars 2021 — Take the following example: Mr and Mrs Smith were in their 60s and had two adult children. Their ***joint estate*** was worth approximately £250,000, ...


Can I Use a Will to Protect My Estate from Care Home Fees?https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk › ...
Traduire cette page
12 mars 2021 — Take the following example: Mr and Mrs Smith were in their 60s and had two adult children. Their ***joint estate*** was worth approximately £250,000, ...


I can't remember the details of the question and I'm unlikely to be able to find it. Perhaps it's US usage, perhaps not.

Plenty of search matches for "estate" in South Africa too.


I'm not too sure if you're open to having your mind changed!

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Note added at 2 hrs (2021-07-06 17:32:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is the second reference I meant to post:

Bloodline Planning – Bull Ferguson Estate Planninghttps://bullfergusonep.co.uk › blood...
Traduire cette page
Marriage after first death – all of the assets in the ***joint estate*** could pass to a new ... children/chosen beneficiaries are subject to divorce proceedings then half of .
Note from asker:
Thanks, but in all the English and Welsh divorce orders I have seen I have never seen the word "estate" used
Something went wrong...
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