Feb 19, 2018 22:16
6 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
United Kingdom
Professional, qualified and accomplished
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English
admettent se baser du bout des lèvres
French to English
Bus/Financial
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
in a report on closure of branches and future for bank industry
Hi
I'm having a little trouble coming up with a translation for this phrase. The context is that the report is talking about a somewhat less optimistic future for banks and indeed some predictions are very negative. The report talks about more branch closures and job losses in the future. So the phrase in question arises as follows:
Admettons que ces prévisions (i.e. the very negative predictions) soient fausses. Et que l’on reste dans celles -beaucoup plus raisonnables- sur lesquelles les banques françaises admettent se baser du bout des lèvres. La “bombe à retardement sociale” serait alors encore gérable.
Many thanks
Mark
I'm having a little trouble coming up with a translation for this phrase. The context is that the report is talking about a somewhat less optimistic future for banks and indeed some predictions are very negative. The report talks about more branch closures and job losses in the future. So the phrase in question arises as follows:
Admettons que ces prévisions (i.e. the very negative predictions) soient fausses. Et que l’on reste dans celles -beaucoup plus raisonnables- sur lesquelles les banques françaises admettent se baser du bout des lèvres. La “bombe à retardement sociale” serait alors encore gérable.
Many thanks
Mark
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +3 | reluctanly / grudgingly admit [s.t.] |
Daryo
|
| 4 | unwillingly admit |
Zeineb Nalouti
|
| 4 -3 | pay lip service to relying upon |
Francois Boye
|
| 3 -2 | tentatively admit |
Philippa Smith
|
Change log
Feb 20, 2018 10:22: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "Report on closure of branches and future for bank industry" to "in a report on closure of branches and future for bank industry"
Proposed translations
+3
9 hrs
French term (edited):
admettre [...] du bout des lèvres
Selected
reluctanly / grudgingly admit [s.t.]
Admettons que ces prévisions soient fausses. Et que l’on reste dans celles -beaucoup plus raisonnables- sur lesquelles les banques françaises admettent se baser du bout des lèvres. La “bombe à retardement sociale” serait alors encore gérable.
sur lesquelles les banques françaises admettent se baser du bout des lèvres
=>
French banks are relying on these "much more reasonable predictions" but [for some reasons that should be found elsewhere in this ST] are not very keen on advertising that fact - will admit it only reluctantly.
That's the meaning of "admettre [qq. ch.] du bout des lèvres", no ifs no buts no maybes.
du bout des lèvres
Français Étymologie De de, bout et lèvre.
Locution adverbiale du bout des lèvres \dy bu dɛ lɛvʁ\ invariable
À contrecœur.
Avouer du bout des lèvres.
Rire du bout des lèvres.
Les armes paralysantes, admises du bout des lèvres par les législateurs de la Fédération, se portaient comme le dernier accessoire à la mode. — (Charles Demassieux, Les chroniques du Chat, 2011)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/du_bout_des_lèvres
à contrecœur
Voir aussi : à contre-cœur
Français[modifier]
Étymologie[modifier]
« Qui va contre le cœur », où « cœur » est à prendre dans le sens de « ce que l’on aime ».
Locution adverbiale [modifier]
à contrecœur \a kɔ̃.tʁə.kœʁ\
À regret, avec répugnance, malgré soi.
L'hérésie eucharistique de Béranger contraignit son adversaire, Lefranc, […], à le suivre sur le même terrain […]. Lefranc le fait à contrecœur, s'étant volontiers contenté pour sa part de la méthode positive des vieux théologiens, fondée sur l'autorité patristique. — (Louis Rougier, Histoire d'une faillite philosophique : la Scolastique, 1925, éd.1966)
Massacrer un gentil, vraiment j'y allais à contrecœur. — (Franz Bartelt, Le Jardin du bossu, Gallimard, 2004)
Variantes[modifier]
à contre-cœur
Synonymes[modifier]
à reculons
à son corps défendant
Traductions[modifier]
Anglais : loathingly (en), regretfully (en), reluctantly (en)
Arabe : على مضض (ar)
Espagnol : a regañadientes (es)
Finnois : vastahokoisesti (fi)
Italien : controvoglia (it), di contraggenio (it)
Néerlandais : met tegenzin (nl)
Polonais : niechętnie (pl)
Portugais : de má vontade (pt), a contragosto (pt)
Roumain : în silă (ro)
Same du Nord : vuostemillii (*)
Tchèque : nerad (cs)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/à_contrecœur#fr
sur lesquelles les banques françaises admettent se baser du bout des lèvres
=>
French banks are relying on these "much more reasonable predictions" but [for some reasons that should be found elsewhere in this ST] are not very keen on advertising that fact - will admit it only reluctantly.
That's the meaning of "admettre [qq. ch.] du bout des lèvres", no ifs no buts no maybes.
du bout des lèvres
Français Étymologie De de, bout et lèvre.
Locution adverbiale du bout des lèvres \dy bu dɛ lɛvʁ\ invariable
À contrecœur.
Avouer du bout des lèvres.
Rire du bout des lèvres.
Les armes paralysantes, admises du bout des lèvres par les législateurs de la Fédération, se portaient comme le dernier accessoire à la mode. — (Charles Demassieux, Les chroniques du Chat, 2011)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/du_bout_des_lèvres
à contrecœur
Voir aussi : à contre-cœur
Français[modifier]
Étymologie[modifier]
« Qui va contre le cœur », où « cœur » est à prendre dans le sens de « ce que l’on aime ».
Locution adverbiale [modifier]
à contrecœur \a kɔ̃.tʁə.kœʁ\
À regret, avec répugnance, malgré soi.
L'hérésie eucharistique de Béranger contraignit son adversaire, Lefranc, […], à le suivre sur le même terrain […]. Lefranc le fait à contrecœur, s'étant volontiers contenté pour sa part de la méthode positive des vieux théologiens, fondée sur l'autorité patristique. — (Louis Rougier, Histoire d'une faillite philosophique : la Scolastique, 1925, éd.1966)
Massacrer un gentil, vraiment j'y allais à contrecœur. — (Franz Bartelt, Le Jardin du bossu, Gallimard, 2004)
Variantes[modifier]
à contre-cœur
Synonymes[modifier]
à reculons
à son corps défendant
Traductions[modifier]
Anglais : loathingly (en), regretfully (en), reluctantly (en)
Arabe : على مضض (ar)
Espagnol : a regañadientes (es)
Finnois : vastahokoisesti (fi)
Italien : controvoglia (it), di contraggenio (it)
Néerlandais : met tegenzin (nl)
Polonais : niechętnie (pl)
Portugais : de má vontade (pt), a contragosto (pt)
Roumain : în silă (ro)
Same du Nord : vuostemillii (*)
Tchèque : nerad (cs)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/à_contrecœur#fr
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Rob Grayson
19 mins
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Thanks!
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| disagree |
Francois Boye
: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pay_lip_service...
7 hrs
|
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you have a very innovative method: from a FR idiom containing "lèvres" you just jump to the first EN idiom containing "lip", and you assume they must mean the same - even some slightly advanced MT wouldn't do that!
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| agree |
Jane F
10 hrs
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Thanks!
|
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| agree |
Simon Mac
13 hrs
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Thanks!
|
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| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: begrudgingly admit
4 days
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Thanks for correcting!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you"
-3
2 hrs
Francois Boye
United States
United States
Native in French
Specializes in field
United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
41
pay lip service to relying upon
It is not necessary to translate 'admettent' because its meaning is included in the meaning of 'paying lip service'
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pay_lip_service...
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pay_lip_service...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: not that, not even close! there are no "lèvres" in the FR translation for "paying lip service", if nothing else ...
7 hrs
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: Automatic agree to offset Daryo's explanation-free disagree. (I'm not sure this is right, though.)
7 hrs
|
| disagree |
Rob Grayson
: Paying lip service is not the right idiom
8 hrs
|
|
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pay_lip_service...
|
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| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: even if "lip service" is implied, your construction is awkward
9 hrs
|
| disagree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Sorry, mistranslation. "To pay lip service to something" is to say you agree when in fact you don't and you do nothing to support what you say you agree to. Lip service not implied, indeed almost the opposite.
4 days
|
14 hrs
Zeineb Nalouti
Tunisia
Tunisia
Native in French
Tunisia
English to French translation
Native in: Arabic (Variants: Tunisian, Libyan) 
, French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: English to French, Arabic to French, French to English
unwillingly admit
the French expression "du bout des lèvres" synonym "à contre coeur" equals to English "unwinllingly"
Example sentence:
Les armes paralysantes, admises du bout des lèvres par les législateurs de la Fédération,
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Francois Boye
: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pay_lip_service...
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Daryo
: another way of saying it.
3 hrs
|
-2
10 hrs
Philippa Smith
Native in English
Works in field
29 years turning out perfect English
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
49
tentatively admit
I think this would work in the context: the banks would only tentatively admit to basing their strategies on positive predictions when such negative predictions exist and could be right, and so they know their choice might blow up in their faces.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2018-02-20 08:49:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Or alternatively "cautiously admit".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2018-02-20 16:04:27 GMT)
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Just rereading the ST, I'm wondering if it could be that the banks are admitting to cautiously using the more positive prognoses as their basis - the cautious ("du bout des lèvres") going with the "se baser" rather than the "admettre"... I'm looking for the logic behind it, because why would they be reluctant? Though of course that may be revealed elsewhere in the text...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2018-02-20 08:49:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Or alternatively "cautiously admit".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2018-02-20 16:04:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Just rereading the ST, I'm wondering if it could be that the banks are admitting to cautiously using the more positive prognoses as their basis - the cautious ("du bout des lèvres") going with the "se baser" rather than the "admettre"... I'm looking for the logic behind it, because why would they be reluctant? Though of course that may be revealed elsewhere in the text...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Rob Grayson
: "du bout des lèvres" does not carry the meaning of "tentatively" // Then we disagree :)
4 mins
|
|
It can do here cf. interpretation + thesaurus // We do indeed! And I'm totally open to it not being the right interpretation. ;-)
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| disagree |
Francois Boye
: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pay_lip_service...
7 hrs
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Not sure why you're posting your link everywhere, but I really don't think paying lip service works in this context.
|
Discussion
but you can not change the basic meaning.
And sometimes the choice of just one term in preference to another can tell a lot. Like "to admit reluctantly" telling you that there is something someone would prefer to hide [NOT that they are uncertain of something] etc etc ... Analysing a sentence / a whole text - so far only done by humans ... no need to worry about MT, for the time being.
HERE: these French banks would rather avoid admitting that they are "relying on more reasonable predictions", but they have to if cornered.
From the extract of the ST given, it seems that for some reason these banks find their interest in scaremongering, trying to push some doomsday scenario, and when forced to show their hand are reluctantly admitting that themselves are relying on not-so-bleak predictions. All that being connected to the threat of "la bombe à retardement sociale" ... Sounds like a case of tying to use the "FUD Factor" (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) and being forced to admit to it.
IOW "admettre [...] du bout des lèvres" in its [only] meaning makes perfect sense in this ST, even within the small extract given.
Maybe "obliquely" ?
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/french-englis...
Let's say these predictions are wrong. And that we stick with those - much more reasonable ones - which the French banks admit to half-heartedly taking as their starting point. The “social time bomb” would then still be manageable.