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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

en planches

English translation:

vegetable garden

Added to glossary by Jana Cole
Jul 15, 2017 05:14
6 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

en planches

French to English Other Real Estate type of garden/garden layout
Does this mean there's a deck in the garden? There's a fence made of slats? Google images shows decks, paneling, a variety of uses fpr slats.

Context:
Au 1er étage: 2 chambres, 1 grand espace mansardé, 1 salle de bains, 1 WC independent.
Au sous-sol, une très grande pièce carrelée avec point d’eau et WC.
L’ensemble donnant sur 1 grande terrasse, 1 jardin *** en planches. ***
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 vegetable garden
2 +2 (kitchen) garden with raised beds
References
fyi/fwiw
About <i>planches</i> in a French garden.
Change log

Jul 15, 2017 06:01: Tony M changed "Field" from "Other" to "Marketing"

Jul 15, 2017 06:36: writeaway changed "Field" from "Marketing" to "Other" , "Field (write-in)" from "gardens" to "type of garden"

Jul 15, 2017 07:12: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "type of garden" to "type of garden/garden layout"

Discussion

ph-b (X) Jul 18, 2017:
GardZ.com Just out of interest, Rachel, have you got examples of planches used with names of flowers? I’ve always seen and used parterres and plates-bandes or indeed Tony’s massifs but not planches de marguerites, de roses ou de coreopsis. And since B D mentioned it, I agree with her about mixing everything in a garden: vegs, fruit trees, flowers and bushes, not to mention a few weeds – in addition to which we let hens roam through the lot (may lose a few lettuces, strawberries and blackcurrants in the process but no big deal) and the dog keep a watchful eye on everything since the garden opens on to the countryside. And so sorry musilang for being grave off-topic.
Tony M Jul 17, 2017:
@ Rachel Yes, but it's a technique / type of layout traditionally used only for vegetable gardens; otherwise, they are simply 'massifs'.
Rachel Fell Jul 17, 2017:
Yes, it's about the layout, but stating that it is a vegetable garden is going too far in my opinion.
Tony M Jul 17, 2017:
@ BDF I think the point is that the type of layout is specifically INTENDED for growing vegetables in...
And I think it has been done traditionally for ease of working the soil (rotovator?) and ease of getting around; my neighbours here still do it this way, and if you have plenty of land to sapre, it certainly makes life easier to have clear pathways in between the beds, it means you can work or harvest easily without crushing other plants underfoot.
B D Finch Jul 17, 2017:
Layout, rather than content The garden may have nothing but weeds growing in it, but "en planches" relates to the layout, rather than to what grows in it. Of course, only a kitchen garden would be laid out that way. I fail to understand why anyone would do that: I grow tomatoes, squash and herbs among the flowers and strongly recommend growing oregano as ground cover, not just for the kitchen.
Tony M Jul 15, 2017:
@ ph-b Well said!
And may I also be allowed to add my (admittedly non-native!) voice to the arguments in favour of 'vegetable garden'? Having translated literally thousands of French property adverts over a period of some 12 years, I know that 'jardin' is very often used by estate agents and notaires to mean 'potager' (a term that I have almost never seen used in this context), whilst when they specificall want to refer to a non-vegetable garden, they use many other terms, such as 'jardin d'agrément', 'parc', etc. Sometimes they will have things like « jardin d'agrément de 500 m² plus jardin non attenant de 700 m² à 50 m »

Also in support of your suggestions, bohy and ph-b, I note again that it is 'jardin en planches', just as it might be 'en terrasses' (though I know there's another word for that, which escapes me at the moment!)

And finally, I am totally conveinced by the use of the term 'planche' for a kind of 'strip bed', which I freely admit I had not previously been familiar with.
ph-b (X) Jul 15, 2017:
Quite. (In response to writeaway's now deleted comment re 'not knowing for sure') That's what Confidence Level 3 is for. Bonne soirée
ph-b (X) Jul 15, 2017:
@ writeaway, about second-guessing (II) It may well be that the author meant otherwise but bohy and I think that is definitely what is written.

<p>The issue here is that the phrase doesn’t exist as such. The author (estate agent ?) may have thought that jardin en planches would sound nice and attract potential buyers (cf. Tony’s brilliant swimming-pool example below) and of course, you’re free to think that he meant a boxed garden or jardin à la française or whatever but some evidence would be welcome (not photos that, frankly, don’t prove much or prove tout et son contraire as they say. I mean, look at the contradictory captions).

<p>For the time being, we just do not know with any degree of certainty what he meant. This is why all we can do is translate what is written as it is written (and translators cannot be held responsible for any of the author’s mistakes or misuse of the language) and above all, as you rightly said, avoid making assumptions.

<p>I wonder who’s second-guessing now.

<p>PS For Musilang : I would ask the client/author, etc… exactly what is meant by this odd jardin en planches thing.
ph-b (X) Jul 15, 2017:
@ writeaway, about second-guessing (I) Thank you for reminding bohy and me that translators are not supposed to second-guess. I’m sure you didn’t mean to be condescending and rest assured that I couldn’t agree more with you.

<p>But surely, you’ll agree with me that the first duty of a translator is to translate accurately, which starts with understanding the source text. Now two professional translators who happen to be native speakers of the source language and also knowledgeable about the subject matter agree on the meaning of planches in this particular context. Don’t you think the odds are that it’s a fairly reliable starting point for the final translation?

<p>Are we second-guessing? We think that planches refers to vegs only (parterres or plates-bandes would be the terms for flowers), and there’s reliable evidence to support this. Don’t our professional qualities, innate knowledge of the language to be translated and experience of the subject warrant to a large extent – though by no means absolutely - that our understanding is correct?

<p>It may well be that the author meant otherwise but bohy and I think that is definitely what is written.

Proposed translations

+4
3 hrs
Selected

vegetable garden

Si l'ensemble du jardin est organisé en planches (= rectangles cultivés), il y a peu de chances que ce soit autre chose qu'un jardin potager. Si l'on peut semer des fleurs en planches, c'est peu probable si l'on n'a pas aussi un vaste espace pour les repiquer ultérieurement.
Et (jusque récemment), il n'y avait pas besoin de la moindre planche en bois pour faire un potager.
Je pense que l'idée de l'auteur est de préciser qu'il n'y a ni pelouse, ni jardin paysagé avec plates-bandes.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Yes, though note that in EN we'd tend to call that a 'kitchen garden' (more cachet!)
5 mins
agree ph-b (X)
13 mins
agree GILLES MEUNIER
6 hrs
agree mchd
19 hrs
neutral B D Finch : A "kitchen garden" rather than a "vegetable garden", as it might also be intended for growing fruit and herbs. NB tomatoes are fruit.
2 days 6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
53 mins
French term (edited): jardin en planches

(kitchen) garden with raised beds

I'm fairly confident about what it means — just less so about what we call this in EN!

It means that the individual beds (most usually for vegetables, whence 'kitchen' garden — note that in real-estate parlance, 'jardin' very often means a kitchen garden, with a different term used specifically to indicated a flower garden) are bordered with planks and thus raised above the natural level of the ground by at least the width of the plank(s).

Although the picture is very small, you can see the idea here:

http://mon-jardin-naturel.cpie.fr/jardin.aspx?ID=155480

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Note added at 4 heures (2017-07-15 09:39:37 GMT)
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Funnily enough, bohy tends to support my suggestion of 'kitchen garden', but not the 'raised' part.

I think bohy and ph-b have got this right: it is a garden laid out with (almost certainly) vegetable beds — this would be consistent with my many years of experience translating real-estate adverts.

So Asker, I withdraw my suggestion, though I shall leave this answer posted for the useful discussion, as well as out of courtesy to those people who have been kind enough to agree with my suggestion.
Peer comment(s):
agree mrrafe : Yes the plantings in the picture are called raised beds in US, if that's what is meant in the ST. And the raised beds could be on a deck, or on the ground as in the picture. If raised waist-high, they could be container plantings.///agreed
4 mins
Thanks, mrrafe! I don't think they'd be on decking, or it would have been mentioned (the 'terrasse' is separately); and I suspect the use of 'planches' implies only one or two plank-widths high, otherwise they'd have used a different term.
neutral ph-b (X) : Can I just point out that planche doesn't necessarily mean 'raised bed'?
2 hrs
OK, but do you have any refs. for the exact expression? I didn't find any...
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : "raised garden beds" : FR=https://fr.pinterest.com/Duval49/jardin-en-planches-de-bois/... EN=http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/lawn-garden/how-to/g92/...
2 hrs
Thanks, Nikki!
neutral Anne Bohy : No, the source text doesn't imply any plank, but rather a vegetable garden (which is divided into "planches", which are simply rectangular areas separated by small paths). "Planches" is an old term which was still common 70 years ago for a vegetable gardn
2 hrs
Certainly makes sense, but I'm a bit worried about no examples of this exact expression in that sense?
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

fyi/fwiw

jardin potager vegetable OU kitchen garden
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/jardin...

Potager en planches. | jardin | Pinterest | Jardins, Beautiful et Légumes
https://fr.pinterest.com/pin/512917845042392346/ -
Légumes. Potager en planches. ... raised garden beds, pink is not my first choice...but dramatic. ..... raised veggie garden beds #gardening #veggies #outdoors ...

Raised Garden Beds | Eartheasy.com
eartheasy.com/grow_raised_beds.htm
The Benefits of Raised Bed Gardening. Raised garden beds, also called garden boxes, are great for growing small plots of veggies and flowers. They keep pathway weeds from your garden soil, prevent soil compaction, provide good drainage and serve as a barrier to pests such as slugs and snails.
http://eartheasy.com/grow_raised_beds.htm

Raised Garden Beds - Garden Center - The Home Depot
www.homedepot.com/b/Outdoors-Garden...Raised-Garden-Beds/N-...
Shop our selection of Raised Garden Beds in the Outdoors Department at The Home Depot.
‎Elevated Bed · ‎Greenes Fence 4 ft. x 8 ft. x ... · ‎CITY PICKERS 24.5 in. x 20.5 ...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree mrrafe
1 hr
agree Rachel Fell : yes, raised beds, or boxed beds, as you mention above - http://tiny.cc/g9cgmy - http://tiny.cc/xcdgmy - which aren't always "raised": http://tiny.cc/5edgmy
2 hrs
also called garden boxes apparently, which seems to do the trick
Something went wrong...
3 hrs
Reference:

About <i>planches</i> in a French garden.

There’s no way for me to know what the author actually means by planches; you may have a photo and it may well be what Tony M suggested earlier.

However, as an amateur gardener, may I just point out that planches in a garden can also simply mean a ‘bed ’ (Glossary of Gardening and Horticultural Terms, Alan Lindsey, 2004, Headley Pager) and have nothing to do with boards/decking, etc., i.e. it doesn't have to be raised.

Please have a look here:

B. AGRIC., HORTIC. Surface cultivée, longue et relativement étroite, dans un jardin ou un champ. Cultiver une planche de carottes. On descend au jardin arroser les planches de laitues (POURRAT, Gaspard, 1930, p.15):
On sait qu'un champ prêt à être ensemencé est divisé en planches égales, de cinq pas de largeur chacune (...). Le semeur entame la première planche à sa droite.
http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/visusel.exe?30;...


Here, they mention ‘cultivated beds’ (not sure of my translation):
Bien entendu, si vous avez plusieurs planches de culture vous pouvez envisager de planter…
https://www.autourdupotager.com/2011/01/5-erreurs-a-eviter-a...

Here, they mention different types of garden lay-out, where they oppose planches (beds), to rangs (lines? strips?) and carrés ('patches' according to Lindsey) :
Les allées du potager - Gerbeaud
www.gerbeaud.com › Fiches pratiques
Quelle que soit son organisation, en planches, en rangs alternés, en carrés ou sur ...

Here they speak of the width of the ‘strips’
https://www.aujardin.org › Au potager › Au coin du potager
7 août 2015 - Quelle est la bonne largeur des planches au potager, jusqu'à présent je plantais sur 1.20m, largeur qui me permettait la rotation des cultures,



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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-07-15 09:18:37 GMT)
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For Tony,

potager en planches is one ref. I've found (http://jardindesmerlettes.com/jardin/espaces/le-potager-simp... PS. I like their 'lasagna' :-)

I haven't found jardin en planches as such but if as I think, the source text comes from a real estate agent, it isn't necessarly a reference as they're known to come up with 'new' phrases (read: 'rubbish') to sell their stuff.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Anne Bohy
12 mins
Merci
agree Tony M : I agree about estate agents' marketing jargon — like 'piscinable' = 'room to build a pool (though it hasn't actually got one!)' 'Potager en planches' does it for me, as like I said, estate agents regularly use 'jardin' instead of 'potager' (too humble?)
23 mins
Thanks - please see above.
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