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girar las piedras a colocar en la coraza

Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

discurso redentorista

English translation:

redemptionist discourse/discourse of redemption

Added to glossary by JaneTranslates
Jan 13, 2011 22:31
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term

discurso redentorista

Spanish to English Social Sciences History Slavery in the Caribbean
I'm translating a book on Caribbean history and historiography. This portion deals with slave uprisings that resulted in the abolition of slavery. More particularly, it deals with how historians VIEWED these events in their analyses.


Context:
Convertida la esclavitud en una de las "palabras claves" (keywords) de la historia caribeña, en uno de esos términos o conceptos que han articulado la discursiva sobre su pasado, fungiendo como metáfora de la opresión y la explotación que ha sufrido la región, las luchas contra ella se transformaron en parte de un **discurso redentorista** que constituía una alegoría de sus luchas por la libertad.


I imagine there's a fixed phrase for "discurso redentorista." I tried "messianic discourse" and "salvation discourse," and I also found "redemptorist discourse," but these phrases seem to be used overwhelmingly in the religious sense. I don't believe that applies here. Given the larger context, the term I'm missing may well be Marxist.

Anyone know the right term here? If not, does anyone have any usable ideas? I'm stuck.

The author is Puerto Rican; the register is academic; I am translating into U.S. English for a scholarly international readership.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Proposed translations (English)
3 redemptionist discourse
4 +2 discourse of redemption
3 +2 redemption rhetoric
3 +1 redemptive discourse
3 a philosophy/discourse of salvation

Discussion

JaneTranslates (asker) Jan 14, 2011:
-ve Ooohhh..."negative." Thanks, Kate, for finding a subtle way to clue me in. I should have gotten it; I've found dozens of ways over the years to deal with the character limitations in my responses. Back on topic: I wouldn't dare change "discurso" to "rhetoric." My author knows the difference! I don't mess with his terminology.
Kate Major Patience Jan 14, 2011:
I actually agree with Fionn In that "discourse" is the correct term in historical and literary criticism contexts, and that "rhetoric" has negative connotations...
JaneTranslates (asker) Jan 14, 2011:
To fionn-- Could you please explain what you mean by "perceived -ve associations"?

Proposed translations

10 hrs
Selected

redemptionist discourse

from the book "Displacements and Transformations
in Caribbean Cultures"

It projects him forward into the ***redemptionist discourse*** of dread history, grounding a seemingly unshakeable optimism about the eventual success of popular democratic struggles in
the United States and elsewhere.14 [note 14 explains the meaning of "dread history"]
http://www.kevinmeehan.org/documents/Meehan_CLR_James_and_Ra...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 horas (2011-01-14 09:29:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the ending "ista" would indicate that "redentorista" is a school of thought
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is exactly what I was looking for, Deborah, and the reference to C.L.R. James is the clincher. I really wanted that -ist suffix but wasn't happy with "redemptorist" when I found it. Thank you so much!"
+1
5 mins

redemptive discourse

I think I remember coming across this in a course involving post-colonial readings of 19th-century literature some years back when I did my degree. I'll look for some references for you, see if they fit.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2011-01-13 22:44:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i7619.html

I tried searching for some Edward Said or similar, and on the way I found this... Have a look at the link.

I think the term will work - it does have religious connotations, but that is deliberate and unavoidable. However, I see what you mean about the other terms you found, and I think the version I suggest I think is the one used in this kind of context, rather than a solely religious term.

I think it is what you're looking for, perhaps! Let's see if anyone comes up with anything better/brings my idea tumbling down for whatever reason.
Note from asker:
Well, no one brought your idea tumbling down, Kate, and I was perfectly happy with your answer when I read it. However, fionn has a good point--this phrase could be taken to mean that the discourse itself does the work of redemption. This is a good option (and my author quotes Said often, so we're certainly in the same frame of reference!), but I think Deborah's suggestion is the one that fits my context best. Thanks so much for your suggestion and research.
Peer comment(s):
agree Muriel Vasconcellos : This was my first thought. Plenty of good examples.
8 hrs
Thanks Muriel. It certainly still seems the best option to me. :) Thanks!
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+2
24 mins

discourse of redemption

I used to lecture on literary criticism and textual analysis, and this was one term which came up quite often in "re-readings" of history.
Example sentence:

The Settlers' Ideology: the Discourse of Redemption and the Discourse of Sovereignty,” (in progress, co-written with Dr. Michal Hamo). ...

Reference:

http://www.styluspub.com/resrcs/other/1565492404_brochure.pdf

Note from asker:
An excellent and authoritative answer, Juliana. Thank you for your help. fionn and David Ronder make good points too. But I think Deborah's "redemptionIST discourse" is exactly what I need. I really appreciate the suggestion and the link.
Peer comment(s):
agree fionn : Best option; avoid 'rhetoric' due to perceived -ve associations; 'redemptive discourse' might imply the discourse itself achieves redemption. And has no one heard Marley's 'Redemption Songs'...?
3 hrs
Thanks Fionn- I agree, rhetoric is a whole other ballgame...
agree David Ronder : And with fionn's points. I wouldn't worry about religious connotations either - Marxism has much in common with religion, as befits a doctrine invented by a rabbi's son.
16 hrs
Thanks David
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28 mins

a philosophy/discourse of salvation

Encyclopedia of theology: a concise Sacramentum mundi - Resultado de la Búsqueda de libros de Google
Karl Rahner - 1975 - Religion - 1841 páginas
Here the additional clause makes the self-predication a discourse of salvation" (W. Grundmann). (iv) The confessions of faith in Christ. ...
books.google.es/books?isbn=0860120066...Transformation as narrative and process: locating myth and mimesis ... - [ Traducir esta página ]The mix of personal narratives and science as utopian and as a discourse of salvation in makeover formats reflects television's intrinsic ability to mediate ...
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_6986/is_4_4/ai.../pg_8/ - En caché| Book Review | The American Historical Review, 108.1 | The ... - [ Traducir esta página ]To modern eyes, this knife edge is made sharper by the church's insistence that sexuality was to be contained within a discourse of salvation, holiness, ...
www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/108.1/br_106.html - Similares
Note from asker:
Thank you, Edward. I think this one is too specifically religious to suit the context. I appreciate your contribution.
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+2
1 hr
Spanish term (edited): discurso redentorista

redemption rhetoric

I'm not aware of a fixed phrase either.

But I'm picking up on the use of "palabras claves" earlier in the context. I thought "rhetoric" might serve that neatly... Not very confident in my suggestion really, but thought I'd offer another angle nonetheless.

I was thinking something along the lines of (dunno how you're handling transformar?):
Example sentence:

"...se transformaron en parte de un discurso redentorista que..."

"...transformed into/became a [sort of] redemption rhetoric that..."

Note from asker:
Thank you, James. I think your solution sounds very good, but this author chooses his terminology and jargon very carefully; I'm sure he meant "discourse," not "rhetoric," and I don't dare change it! Thanks for your contribution and the helpful discussion. (And yes, I'm de-dramatizing "se transformaron" into "became." I regularly warn my students that an elegant turn of phrase in Spanish, translated literally, can sound like soap-opera dialog in English.)
Peer comment(s):
agree Christine Walsh : Sounds good to me!
1 hr
Thanks, Christine.
agree Sian Bowen : Spot on.
9 hrs
Thanks, Sian.
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