| Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2] | A 'members-only' site Auteur du fil: XXXphxxx (X)
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XXXphxxx (X) 
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 21:57
portugais vers anglais
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AUTEUR DU FIL | Is there a 'rule' that stops you? | May 23, 2012 |
neilmac wrote:
For example if someone posts 20+ queries on the trot in one morning (you know who you are) couldn't we be allowed to gently question their suitability for the task?
or are you just concerned about etiquette?
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Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: Is there a 'rule' that stops you? neilmac wrote:
For example if someone posts 20+ queries on the trot in one morning (you know who you are) couldn't we be allowed to gently question their suitability for the task? or are you just concerned about etiquette?
3.7 Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).
http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=kudoz_answ
[Edited at 2012-05-23 16:35 GMT]
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 21:57
portugais vers anglais
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AUTEUR DU FIL | Pay-as-you-go | May 23, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: Hi Lisa, I don't think I'd be in favour of making it a private club, but I do think there is too little difference between the facilities provided for paying vs non-paying. The main example is in KudoZ use. Quoting from the membership sales blurb: Terms research and assistance Members can ask three-times the KudoZ questions as non-members. Great! Thanks! In practice, don't non-paying users tend to ask three times as many as paying members? Don't they tend to ask a higher proportion of non-Pro questions? I know there are exceptions, and some registered users are bona-fide translators who have given a lot of time to the site over the years, but it seems that many non-paying users think "I wonder what xxx is in yyy language? I'll ask on ProZ.com". They don't research it themselves - that's what us pros are here for.  I would like to see non-paying = non-asking. The glossary should be free for all to browse, but only paying members should be allowed to add to it. Maybe there could be a pay-as-you-go arrangement. Annual membership is quite expensive (though well worth it, IMO) and maybe difficult to justify if you hardly ever ask a KudoZ question. I do think that people value things (anything) more if they pay for it, even if it's a token payment. Sheila
I agree with all of the above Sheila. I also agree that there is too little difference between what is available to paying/non-paying members. Not sure about 'pay-as-you-go' though, what does one do if the askers aren't happy with the replies they receive?
I'm no maths genius but my assumption was that more paying members = more cash, thus lower membership fees. I also wonder how much admin is created through support requests made by non-paying members.
| | | | Oliver Walter
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 21:57
allemand vers anglais
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| That's why I can't... | May 23, 2012 |
That is why one member (there may be others too) who is native in language N and offers to translate from language F to language N and from N to F, will not be informed by me that he is not competent to translate into language F, although this is clear from his profile, which he has provided in both those languages. I can only hope he doesn't receive any important work to translate into F.
(I used N and F to indicate Native and Foreign)
Oliver
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Samuel Murray
Pays-Bas
Local time: 22:57
Membre (2006)
anglais vers afrikaans
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| What price decrease do you want? | May 23, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
What do we think of a 'members-only' site? Would this encourage more people to become members and thus bring down the cost of membership or does that not follow?
Well, look at how big ProZ.com is and how small many of the similar sites are that are "members only" or that offer practically on benefits for non-paying members. All non-paying members are potential paying members, so you have to keep them engaged somehow. I think ProZ.com will lose more non-paying members than gain paying members with any drastic step.
The question is: what price reduction would you be happy with?
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My heart sank when I saw this thread. Having started a thread to discuss the ideal site (a discussion I enjoyed), the OP is now seemingly starting threads to discuss individual aspects of "ideal sites" in relation to proz. Almost as if the underlying reason for the original thread was "how we can we make proz our ideal site".
Well, we can't. It is what it is, take it or leave it.
See this thread and the threads it links to?... See more My heart sank when I saw this thread. Having started a thread to discuss the ideal site (a discussion I enjoyed), the OP is now seemingly starting threads to discuss individual aspects of "ideal sites" in relation to proz. Almost as if the underlying reason for the original thread was "how we can we make proz our ideal site".
Well, we can't. It is what it is, take it or leave it.
See this thread and the threads it links to?
http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom:_translator_coop/57466-compilation_of_thread_lets_improve3_things_i_would_do_if_i_were_running_prozcom_action_plan.html
FWIW, I mentioned that my ideal site would be a paid site.
I should perhaps point out that there is a world of difference between who and what you get on a website that starts out as "paid only" versus who and what you get on a website that changes its policy after several years to become "paid only".
Luckily it's a pointless discussion, if proz's past record in making radical changes on the basis of a couple of threads is anything to go by ▲ Collapse
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 21:57
portugais vers anglais
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AUTEUR DU FIL | Part of the same discussion | May 23, 2012 |
@ Charlie
We're all discussing a theoretical site here, every day, whether it be that 'ideal site' we're all dreaming of and that may one day materialise, or improving ProZ in ways that we can perhaps only dream of. I, for one, prefer to discuss than feel disgruntled. Please feel free to return to the 'ideal site' thread, there are still many unanswered questions there.
| | | | | My story... chicken or egg? | May 23, 2012 |
I was a non-paying user here at Proz for some 5 years. The reason? There was not enough demand for my pair (EN/PT). As this specific demand rose, I became a paying member, found some great clients here, either by bidding on their posted jobs, or contacting the selected 'good' ones on their web sites via the Blue Board.
Meanwhile I am still a free user of most other Proz-like sites, since in none of the others the (low or inexistent) demand for my pair justifies the investment in the... See more I was a non-paying user here at Proz for some 5 years. The reason? There was not enough demand for my pair (EN/PT). As this specific demand rose, I became a paying member, found some great clients here, either by bidding on their posted jobs, or contacting the selected 'good' ones on their web sites via the Blue Board.
Meanwhile I am still a free user of most other Proz-like sites, since in none of the others the (low or inexistent) demand for my pair justifies the investment in their fees. The day it becomes viable, I will subscribe there.
One of the possible reasons for the rise in demand on Proz may have been the existence of translators in this very pair. I've seen a few sites that demand payment up-front, before one can see the demand for their services. I'm not betting on them and, likewise, when outsourcers see that they don't have a significant number of translators for this specific pair, they refrain from wasting time posting a job there, thus keeping the demand for it low. ▲ Collapse
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
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I would like to see non-paying = non-asking.
Sheila
non-paying = non-answering then?
Bernhard
;- )
[Edited at 2012-05-24 02:30 GMT]
| | | | | Times change indeed ... | May 24, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: writeaway wrote:
Imo the willingness to pay has nothing at all to do with the ability to translate I don't disagree with anything you've said, Writeaway, and I just wish I could have been a part of the "good old days" on ProZ. But times change. Whether they change for the better or not is a moot point, but you can't prevent them from changing. And nowadays, everybody is looking for "freebies", not community spirit, self-help, peer support etc. It's sad, but there you are. Shops often point out you are "free to browse". But you certainly aren't free to take things away, or to request special items - for that you have to pay. Sheila
... and Proz.com has gotten much bigger. Lots more users, lots more jobs, lots more members.
I agree,
IMO too, the willingness to pay has nothing to do with the ability to translate (yes, writeaway, certainement!) or ..... with the willingness to answer questions and show a bit of that ability (well, not yet).
But I'm probably not going to buy a members-only jacket, should it be offered.
It's probably too exclusive. (Not my thing.)
Bernhard
;- )
[Edited at 2012-05-24 03:12 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Pays-Bas
Local time: 22:57
Membre (2006)
anglais vers afrikaans
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| Carrot and stick | May 24, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I'm no maths genius but my assumption was that more paying members = more cash, thus lower membership fees. I also wonder how much admin is created through support requests made by non-paying members.
Any discussion about lower membership fees would only make sense if we know by how much we would like to see the fees lowered. The current fee is roughly EUR 100 per year. What kind of fee would make you feel like you've accomplished what you had set out to get? EUR 50? Simplistically speaking, to get the fee halved you'd have to double the number of paying members from about 25 000 to about 50 000. Or rather, you'd have to change the ratio of paying members to non-paying members from 1:20 to 1:10. Do you really think severe limits (or even no access) to e.g. forums and KudoZ would accomplish that? A stick approach rarely works well, particularly in a free market.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 22:57
français vers anglais
| The maths is not that simple | May 24, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I'm no maths genius but my assumption was that more paying members = more cash, thus lower membership fees. I also wonder how much admin is created through support requests made by non-paying members. http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/225475-a_members_only_site.html Any discussion about lower membership fees would only make sense if we know by how much we would like to see the fees lowered. The current fee is roughly EUR 100 per year. What kind of fee would make you feel like you've accomplished what you had set out to get? EUR 50? Simplistically speaking, to get the fee halved you'd have to double the number of paying members from about 25 000 to about 50 000. Or rather, you'd have to change the ratio of paying members to non-paying members from 1:20 to 1:10. Do you really think severe limits (or even no access) to e.g. forums and KudoZ would accomplish that? A stick approach rarely works well, particularly in a free market.
Proz does also get revenue from advertising, and advertisers would not want to pay so much to advertise on a website that doesn't attract such huge numbers of translators.
Personally I would only want to be part of a members only website if a translator friend recommended it to me
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XXXphxxx (X)
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 21:57
portugais vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL | Allow limited access | May 24, 2012 |
My ideal would be to limit access, thus allowing potential members to browse at free will, give them a limit of 'x' forum posts and 'y' KudoZ question a day and take it from there. I'm not familiar enough with the other sites, not having looked at them recently, nor have I joined the more exclusive (and cheaper) site to see what they offer for the money.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Pays-Bas
Local time: 22:57
Membre (2006)
anglais vers afrikaans
+ ...
| Current limits | May 24, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
My ideal would be to limit access, thus allowing potential members to browse at free will, give them a limit of 'x' forum posts and 'y' KudoZ question a day and take it from there.
The current limit of KudoZ questions for non-paying users is 5 questions per day. How many do you think should be limit be, to accomplish the increase in paying membership that you have in mind?
As far as I'm aware there is no limit on forum posts, but even prolific posters rarely post more than 5 posts a day on average anyway. Besides, the benefit of the forums is the ability to read, not write.
[Edited at 2012-05-24 08:35 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Pays-Bas
Local time: 22:57
Membre (2006)
anglais vers afrikaans
+ ...
| Let's get practical | May 24, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I'm not familiar enough with the other sites, not having looked at them recently, nor have I joined the more exclusive (and cheaper) site to see what they offer for the money.
To get an idea of what paying users get that non-paying ones don't, have a look here:
http://www.proz.com/membership/campaign
http://www.proz.com/about/overview/
http://www.proz.com/about/overview/terminology/
http://www.proz.com/about/overview/jobs-directories/
http://www.proz.com/member-activities
http://www.proz.com/about/overview/tools/
http://www.proz.com/about/overview/education/
For someone who is not paying anything, suddenly paying EUR 100 would only make sense if they can get something for that EUR 100 that is worth that much for them.
So let's do a little exercise here. Let's assume for argument's sake that non-paying members currently pay EUR 5 per year, and that you want the membership fee to be reduced from EUR 100 per year to EUR 50 per year. That means that paying members pay ten times as much as non-paying members, but... at leaste it comes with exclusive access to some of the offerings listed in the URLs above.
Now it's your turn: suppose your ProZ.com subscription were to increase ten-fold (as it would for a non-paying member who wants to become a paying member). Which of the ProZ.com services listed in the URLs above would you consider worth paying EUR 1000 per year for (if you would otherwise have no access to it)?
That is essentially the hurdle for current non-paying users -- they have to decide which of those services are worth so much to them that they would be willing to pay ten times as much for it as they currently do (in this rather conservative scenario).
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