'Light' and 'Full' MTPE??? Thread poster: Anne Savaris
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Anne Savaris 
Brazil
Local time: 11:20
Member (2016)
Portuguese to Italian
+ ...
Please tell me it's not a rule. I'm receiving 'proposals' for MTPE services (which I always give my standard rate, as the CAT tools I buy as an investment in my professional career DO offer me NMT or MT and it's already a post-editing), which are divided in 'Full' post edit and 'Light' post edit: the latter is a post edit that has to make the text readable, correct and understandable, but does not require consistency or accuracy. Which serious translator would accept to poorly translate a text f... See more Please tell me it's not a rule. I'm receiving 'proposals' for MTPE services (which I always give my standard rate, as the CAT tools I buy as an investment in my professional career DO offer me NMT or MT and it's already a post-editing), which are divided in 'Full' post edit and 'Light' post edit: the latter is a post edit that has to make the text readable, correct and understandable, but does not require consistency or accuracy. Which serious translator would accept to poorly translate a text for poor payment? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Holandija
Local time: 16:20
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Sometimes we do just one thing | Nov 4, 2022 |
Anne Savaris wrote:
Which serious translator would accept to poorly translate a text for poor payment?
If a client asked you to check a text and fix only comma-related mistakes (but no other mistakes), would you consider it immoral/unethical to accept the job? Would you be able to resist the temptation to fix other mistakes? Would you tell yourself that fixing other mistakes is an "good-faith service to the client" that they should be happy with, even if they specifically requested you not to do it? Some translators struggle to do just one thing, i.e. they can't do just the one thing that the client asks them to do, if that thing is something less than what they would normally do for clients.
If there were three translators working on a project, namely one that fixes only the meaning errors in the machine translation, one that then fixes terminology/consistency issues in the translation, and one that then improves the elegance of the translation, would it be so bad to be just one of those translators (and be paid less than if you were a translator who was responsible for all three tasks)?
And if the client should decide (or had decided beforehand) that they're not going to have the second and a third round of checking to improve the text after the first translator fixed only meaning errors, would it be immoral for the translator to accept that task of the first round editing, knowing that the text will not be improved upon after that?
I understand that some translators are unable to provide just one service, when asked (and they have my sympathy), but doing just one thing if the client asks you to do just one thing isn't unethical, in my opinion. It's something that you can get used to, and if it takes much less time to do it, then you should feel free to charge less for it.
[Edited at 2022-11-04 10:59 GMT]
| | | | Anne Savaris
Brazil
Local time: 11:20
Member (2016)
Portuguese to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Just realized that I am an outmoded translator! | Nov 4, 2022 |
Thanks for your sympathy, Murray. It actually seems that my services as a translator do not fit the new normal standards which are entering this industry as well. As I always have too much work, I don't have time even to value this kind of request, but this time I couldn't resist to ask my colleagues if things have 'evoluted' so much since I've been working full time in a consistent full paid rate. Sorry, I am really an old school professional who has only an old school potfolio.
[Modifi... See more Thanks for your sympathy, Murray. It actually seems that my services as a translator do not fit the new normal standards which are entering this industry as well. As I always have too much work, I don't have time even to value this kind of request, but this time I couldn't resist to ask my colleagues if things have 'evoluted' so much since I've been working full time in a consistent full paid rate. Sorry, I am really an old school professional who has only an old school potfolio.
[Modificato alle 2022-11-04 13:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | unclear boundaries | Nov 4, 2022 |
What's the concept of readable, correct and understandable text by giving up consistency and accuracy? Because then it might turn out that one has to try to adhere to both, just a little, if you want to come up with a readable and comprehensible text... Let me show some clear boundaries and then discuss.
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Riccardo Schiaffino
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 08:20
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
| That is the opposite of what light MTPE should be | Nov 4, 2022 |
Anne Savaris wrote:
Please tell me it's not a rule. I'm receiving 'proposals' for MTPE services (which I always give my standard rate, as the CAT tools I buy as an investment in my professional career DO offer me NMT or MT and it's already a post-editing), which are divided in 'Full' post edit and 'Light' post edit: the latter is a post edit that has to make the text readable, correct and understandable, but does not require consistency or accuracy. Which serious translator would accept to poorly translate a text for poor payment?
If someone requests a "light" MTPE job requiring that it be "readable, correct and understandable, but does not require consistency or accuracy." they don't understand what MT is, and in particular the difference between "light" and "full" PE:
In brief: with light post editing, the resulting translation should be accurate (without errors of meaning) and understandable, error of grammar and other types of errors should be corrected only if they affect the meaning; with full post editing, the translation should be accurate, understandable and correct.
See for example these defintions:
Light post editing involves very minimal changes to the machine translated text. It could include correcting grammar and spelling mistakes if they affect meaning, fixing mistakes the machine added, rewriting any confusing text, and removing any superfluous or unneeded translation.
(Light PE) involves performing as few modifications as possible to the raw MT output in order to make the translation understandable, factually accurate and grammatically correct.
Light post-editing tasks include: Correcting grammar and spelling mistakes only if they affect the meaning;
| | | | kd42
Estonija
Local time: 17:20
English to Russian
| A look at MTPE from another perspective | Nov 8, 2022 |
Thanks everyone, especially Samuel, for being so up to the point and only slightly emotional.
I have very much experience with MT and MTPE.
I will only add one important and practical note: the current development level of neural MT is so high, that if you work in a "small batch mode" (check 2k and commit them, allowing MT to learn, instead of checking 300k/1000k without committing them), the output is very good, the client is happy, the end user is happy, and, most imp... See more Thanks everyone, especially Samuel, for being so up to the point and only slightly emotional.
I have very much experience with MT and MTPE.
I will only add one important and practical note: the current development level of neural MT is so high, that if you work in a "small batch mode" (check 2k and commit them, allowing MT to learn, instead of checking 300k/1000k without committing them), the output is very good, the client is happy, the end user is happy, and, most importantly, your daily earnings are [much] higher than your "classic CAT translation" earnings. This is not going to last long, so, don't be a Luddite and take the advantage of the situation.
Happy postediting! :^) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | With full MTPE, MT's 'work' input is extra | Nov 9, 2022 |
I was recently offered an MTPE project where I was technically allowed to produce subpar output; a company had to translate huge volumes of detailed design documents which, I suppose, nobody would read anyway, and many of them were very similar; they just had to exist in translation. The thing is I'd already worked on such content myself and had good-quality translations in my TM. Having compared the MT output to the translations I had in my head, I decided to ditch the MT altogether, do a pre-t... See more I was recently offered an MTPE project where I was technically allowed to produce subpar output; a company had to translate huge volumes of detailed design documents which, I suppose, nobody would read anyway, and many of them were very similar; they just had to exist in translation. The thing is I'd already worked on such content myself and had good-quality translations in my TM. Having compared the MT output to the translations I had in my head, I decided to ditch the MT altogether, do a pre-translate in Trados, fill in the blanks, correct some lousy translations my TM still had as legacy content, and deliver the work in good quality (and on time, even though the MTPE deadline was quite tough).
I'd really love to see someone who claims they can do the same thing way faster with MTPE take on a real MTPE job involving a text to be translated in my language pair that is not high school-level, not already contained in a human-made TM, is supposed to convey some no-nonsense meaning to the target audience, and is on a topic not unfamiliar to the translator. My claim would be that if the translator knows the topic well, they'll just ditch the MT output just like I did (or use it as a source of text in the target language, which must be thoroughly rechecked) and won't be able to complete the job faster than I'd do working all by myself (unless that person is a faster translator than me).
Again, talking about my language pair only. A passage in a legal document could more than double in volume when correctly translated Eng-Rus merely because of language peculiarities MT will keep disregarding. An oil and gas text will be impossible for MT to translate merely because the terminology systems are very different between the two languages and you have to make tough decisions as to which term to choose even if does appear in a dictionary (many just don't). Same thing applies to civil engineering, electrical engineering, and many other subject-matter areas, but for most of them you'll also need a solid understanding of how things work to make correct translation decisions, as KudoZ queries so often bear out. MT is useless there. So, what are the fields in which is it useful? Can anybody tell me, I'd really like to know. MT can't produce texts that sell, it can't make a literary translation come together even at the most basic level, it can't adapt a translation so it could be used in subtitling, not to mention voice-over, and there are so many other things it can't do
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| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Intent vs. Reality | Nov 11, 2022 |
The intended meaning of "light MTPE" is most likely an instruction to avoid tediously adapting text to flow correctly in the target language when it is still somewhat understandable as-is.
Examples:
Management of projects in construction vs. Construction project management
University named after Bob Smith vs. Bob Smith University
However, in reality, translators often treat all MTPE as license to deliver crappy work. And if it specifically says "light... See more The intended meaning of "light MTPE" is most likely an instruction to avoid tediously adapting text to flow correctly in the target language when it is still somewhat understandable as-is.
Examples:
Management of projects in construction vs. Construction project management
University named after Bob Smith vs. Bob Smith University
However, in reality, translators often treat all MTPE as license to deliver crappy work. And if it specifically says "light"...
To summarize: just don't take it.
[Edited at 2022-11-11 09:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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