| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Does this world still need "good" quality-oriented linguists (translators, post-editors, reviewers)? Thread poster: Inge Schumacher
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Peter Motte 
Belgium
Local time: 10:39
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
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Charlie Bavington wrote: Peter Motte wrote:"Literature"? What do you mean by "literature"? I mean translation viewed as if it were some kind of superior art form, with carefully selected synonyms to avoid repetition and agonies over commas versus semi-colons. Which has a place, for sure. But perhaps not if the client just wants to know what a spec says for a meeting tomorrow morning and the document will be in the shredder by lunchtime.
Trying to make literature out of a spec sheet or meeting notes would be contraproductive. Nobody puts a spec sheet on rhyme. There is no point in doing it, and it wouldn't help the reader at all, rather to the contrary.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:39
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Inge Schumacher wrote:
I have always been extremely quality-oriented, which is certainly the main reason for my success in the profession.
Now, I get more and more the impression that clients are mainly looking for fast and especially CHEAP linguists.
Different agencies have different priorities, but most agencies want "fast" and "cheap", and they don't care about quality as long as the quality is above a certain threshold. There are agencies that favour quality over speed, but it will take time for you to find those jewels.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:39
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Samuel Murray wrote:
..... There are agencies that favour quality over speed, but it will take time for you to find those jewels.
And more importantly, for them to find you !
| | | | Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 10:39
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Glad to read that!! :-) | Jan 3 |
Tom in London wrote: Inge Schumacher wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I'm rather new to the freelance market, but I've long years of (mainly technical) translation and interpreting as an in-house linguist.
I have always been extremely quality-oriented, which is certainly the main reason for my success in the profession.
Now, I get more and more the impression that clients are mainly looking for fast and especially CHEAP linguists.
I could have a lot of jobs if I was ready to accept low rates, but after my last (and very unexpected!) disastrous experience (translation in European defence field for an Italian agency), I decided to take stock and reposition myself as a professional:
Is there still a need for "good" translators who want to work in accordance with the rules of the art or not?
Thanks a lot for your thoughts and advice.
Kind regards,
Inge
If you have a track record of being a better translator (more puntilious, more exact, with command of the specialist language and terminologies used in a specific field) you'll find that people will come looking for you when a cheap MTPE translation just won't do. Naturally you will be more expensive than the others. That's been my experience in recent years. There's less work now, but it's paid better, is more interesting and challenging to do, and is more appreciated by those who need credible, first-class translations which reach a standard that can be published and that will enhance their standing in the perceptions of those with whom they interact. As an Italian once said to me "you get what you pay for". So my answer to your question is "yes - of course". Things have moved on in the translation business; we're into a new phase now. [Edited at 2024-01-02 14:33 GMT]
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Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 10:39
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Fast food and Five star restaurants | Jan 3 |
[quote]Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
Yes! Good human translators/post-editors/reviewers are always in demand. We could compare the translation industry to the restaurant industry: there are lots and lots of fast-food joints but there is also room for five-star restaurants and everything in between. I’m one of those “dinosaurs” who don’t work with a CAT tool (there are still some of us left…) and yet I’m still working after 40 years in the business and I must say that lately some clients have come to me for that reason.
Dear Maria Teresa,
You've hit my sensitive spot! Like a true "Frenchy", I just LOVE good food and very happily contribute to the "survival" of high-quality restoration, and am (obviously) ready to pay the price for it.
So, yes, I can believe that clients come to you because you are what you are! Hopefully, I will be able to make my way like you (and your peers) do.
Maybe more and more people will see that MT ad AI and cheap productions don't lead anywhere.
These tools can be helpful, but ONLY if you KNOW YOUR BASICS (talking about linguistics).
[Bearbeitet am 2024-01-03 13:17 GMT]
| | | | Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 10:39
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | A really good laugh! | Jan 3 |
[quote]Tom in London wrote:
I recently needed to translate a short, important statement into Somali. I used ChatGPT
Sure, it was fast but when an Somali friend read it she said it was like something a chatty young person would have written to a friend. Not formal, as would have been required, and for that reason unusable.
Tom,
Sometimes you can even have a real good hilarious laugh!
[Bearbeitet am 2024-01-03 13:27 GMT]
[Bearbeitet am 2024-01-03 13:27 GMT]
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These days, agencies looking for new translators start the conversation by asking "What is your rate in Covid times?" I annot understand why I should reduce my rates for Covid. The quality of my work remains the same. It is frustrating, because they use my rate for doing their shopping with other translators, and there is always someone less "expensive" around.
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Please don’t put words in my mouth! I never said in my comparison that “working with CAT means cheap, low-grade translations”. I made the choice of not working with CAT tools, but everybody else is entitled to organize their workflow and to set their rates as they please. We live in a free world and as you know the translation and interpreting industry is not regulated.
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Renate Radziwill-Rall wrote:
These days, agencies looking for new translators start the conversation by asking "What is your rate in Covid times?"
Agencies are still playing that trick?
| | | | | Who's going to read it? | Jan 11 |
-- The bulk of translated texts are not read by anyone (done and archived for regulatory purposes, including most translations of completed Medical Studies).
-- Of the rest, which might be read:
- If the editor likes it, and doesn't want to destroy it (conflict of interest, the project manager doesn't speak the language so he doesn't know whom to trust etc)
- If the client's secretary likes it (most of them prefer "chatty" text, than eloquent writing)
etc.
... See more -- The bulk of translated texts are not read by anyone (done and archived for regulatory purposes, including most translations of completed Medical Studies).
-- Of the rest, which might be read:
- If the editor likes it, and doesn't want to destroy it (conflict of interest, the project manager doesn't speak the language so he doesn't know whom to trust etc)
- If the client's secretary likes it (most of them prefer "chatty" text, than eloquent writing)
etc.
Attached is an example of terrible editing (the editor "WTm2" is wrong - the middle column is correct), which cost significant damage to multiple parties. The project manager sided with the editor initially, and when she realized she was wrong, she just blocked... the translator (!). The QA manager wanted to save the huge company's LifeSciences reputation, and blocked... the translator. Who would want to know that the No. 1 LifeSciences Agency doesn't really know what they're doing?
(the full screenshot I have in my possession could seriously embarrass that agency we all know... and cost them lots of their Life Sciences clients).
In another case, another well known agency in Texas preferred a former hairdresser to translate an industrial mechanical pump manual, and bypassed an experienced mechanical engineer and editor (this case was so egregious I'll never forget it).
They don't care, because clients rarely read the translations, so competition in quality is almost non-existent.
So, while you are investing your time to write great texts, almost nobody's reading them, and even if they do, they're not experienced enough to know the difference. Your "colleague" next door is making $$$ using ChatGTP to finish translations in record time, bad/chatty unnatural text, but the only thing PMs can read is the clock (and their personal preferences).
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| | | | Koume
Local time: 18:39
English to Japanese
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Hi, I am a Japanese translator. Luckily, Translation between English and Japanese is still hard for machines to translate like humans but surely machine translation discount trend is coming towards us too. It is mostly from the agent who does have a Japanese speaker so I carefully explain that I do not do Machine translation editing as it is more time consuming and less cost. I have been firm about this position more than 5 years. Only a few quality focused agencies are with me but I am happy to... See more Hi, I am a Japanese translator. Luckily, Translation between English and Japanese is still hard for machines to translate like humans but surely machine translation discount trend is coming towards us too. It is mostly from the agent who does have a Japanese speaker so I carefully explain that I do not do Machine translation editing as it is more time consuming and less cost. I have been firm about this position more than 5 years. Only a few quality focused agencies are with me but I am happy to work with them! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 10:39
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| I agree only partially | Jan 11 |
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
They don't care, because clients rarely read the translations, so competition in quality is almost non-existent.
So, while you are investing your time to write great texts, almost nobody's reading them, and even if they do, they're not experienced enough to know the difference. Your "colleague" next door is making $$$ using ChatGTP to finish translations in record time, bad/chatty unnatural text, but the only thing PMs can read is the clock (and their personal preferences).
I agree that a lot of translation work is never or hardly read by end clients, and I also agree that there are colleagues who try to be as fast as possible without considering quality.
What I don't agree with is that competition in quality is almost non-existent. I, e.g., offer besides conventional translation also machine translation editing work for a reduced rate. On a side note: I don't do that out of fear not to receive conventional translation work anymore, but because I've learnt that it is possible to deliver this service while maintaining profitability AND quality. But back to the point I'm trying to make: I am certain that 2 of my best customers put reviewers on my work, EVERY SINGLE TIME, one of which even delivers a rating of every single translation or post-editing I deliver. So, trust me, there is no way I would even be able to deliver crappy work without being noticed and eventually kicked out. I know this because it also works the other way around : I also review work of others and I never hesitate to point out bad quality if there is reason to. It's actually a good system, because the best translators stay and the bad ones are kicked out sooner or later.
So, back to the esteemed colleagues who don't give a damn about quality : yes, they are there, but I'm pretty sure they mainly work for bottom-feeding agencies at ridiculous rates. So I have my doubts about those $$$.
On a more general note I think your point of view is way too pessimistic. The quality translation segment has always been there and it is my firm belief that it will continue to be there until the bots have completely taken over planet Earth.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:39
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
-- The bulk of translated texts are not read by anyone (done and archived for regulatory purposes...).
It really depends on what field you work in. There are fields in which most texts are actually read by consumers, and in which quality is paramount. Translation agencies that care about quality will appreciate working with a translator who is able to deliver quality work.
Attached is an example of terrible editing ... which cost significant damage to multiple parties.
It is an interesting example, but I don't think it really says anything about Inge's original question. It only proves that some editors make mistakes and that some agencies then believe the editors instead of the translators. It doesn't say anything about the agency's attitude towards quality.
| | | | Quentin NEVEN
Belgium
Local time: 10:39
Member (Jan 2024)
English to French
+ ...
Hello,
I really love this question because it deals with a very important topic: the impact of modern technology on our industry.
I believe there is still a need for good-quality translations, but the market is evolving, and translators need to understand that technology is having a bigger impact on our profession.
People now have more options: they can choose a cheap and easy translation but with a poor quality or a more expensive and long translation m... See more Hello,
I really love this question because it deals with a very important topic: the impact of modern technology on our industry.
I believe there is still a need for good-quality translations, but the market is evolving, and translators need to understand that technology is having a bigger impact on our profession.
People now have more options: they can choose a cheap and easy translation but with a poor quality or a more expensive and long translation made by and FOR humans. They can also work with the two systems!
I believe technology has its limits (which is a big relief; otherwise I studied at university for asbolutely no reason). In some areas, it produces good-quality content and requires little editing (ex. subtitling popular videos on Youtube). However, it is not perfect and needs some proofreading by a human. In others, it is absolutely clueless. I expect it to be bad in technical translation, but I know for sure it is bad in literary translation, particularly when it comes to poetry.
I believe hiring a professional translator makes a lot of sense if you are looking for quality (although, it does not guarantee the quality of the work, as different translators do not have the same expertise and experience in one given field).
On the other hand, post-edition, in some contexts, allows people to get something cheaper and faster. They would still need a linguist, but mainly for proofreading. In some cases, such as litterary translations, it would be easier and faster to simply hire a translator because there would be too much editing involved in proofreading.
The only good use for an automatic translation without proofreading I can think of is if you stumble upon an article or an email in a language you do not understand at all. It will give you the gist of it, at least.
In conclusion, as translators, we should not see technology as a menace but as a limited tool. We need to adapt to the rapid technological development and use it to our advantage. For instance, technology proves to be quite efficient when it comes to transcription (I work in the audiovisual industry). With some Youtube tutorials, I was able to automate it and get 99% accuracy, amazing !
This is also what you need to communicate with potential clients that might think : "oh, a machine can do this, so your work is not so valuable". Wrong !
Hope it answer your question, ▲ Collapse
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Evgeny Sidorenko wrote:
Is the Iliad in the original old Greek rhymed? I highly doubt it. It has a certain rhythm, i.e. sequences of stressed and unstressed syllables, which is perfectly rendered in the Russian translation made in 19th century by Gnedic. But it's not rhyming which I think means similar-sounding endings of lines.
You should explain that Iliad is written in dactylic hexameters, that is: the type of hexameter (= a line or rhythm in poetry with six stressed syllables) used in ancient Greek poetry, that usually consists of five dactyls and either a spondee or trochee:
and I can add that the first complete translation into Italian, in octave rhyme, was made by Giambattista Tebaldi, published in Rome in 1620.
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