Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
billion
English translation:
billion - 10(9)
Added to glossary by
Glen McCulley
Mar 11, 2005 13:01
19 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term
billion
French to English
Bus/Financial
Mathematics & Statistics
Is this 10(9) or 10(12)?
Maybe the context would help:
En France, les associations de solidarité emploient plus de 430.000 personnes, parmi lesquelles des assistantes sociales et des infirmières. Elles gèrent quelque 23 billions d’euros, la majorité provenant de fonds publics.
Maybe the context would help:
En France, les associations de solidarité emploient plus de 430.000 personnes, parmi lesquelles des assistantes sociales et des infirmières. Elles gèrent quelque 23 billions d’euros, la majorité provenant de fonds publics.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +2 | billion - 10(9) | Glen McCulley |
5 +1 | 10(12) | Daphne Theodoraki |
5 +1 | Literally: trillion 10^12 (In Hungarian: billió) | Attila Piróth |
5 +1 | FRENCH "billion" versus "milliard" | Bourth (X) |
4 | trillion | Anna Maria Augustine (X) |
4 -1 | billion (UK) or trillion (US) | Jennifer White |
Proposed translations
+2
8 mins
Selected
billion - 10(9)
Europe has now accepted/adopted this 10 to the power nine (a thousand million) as standard to clear up the previous confusion...
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Note added at 13 mins (2005-03-11 13:15:00 GMT)
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if it was 10(12) each person - nurse would be generating over 53 million euros which is plainly ridiculous
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Note added at 45 mins (2005-03-11 13:46:48 GMT)
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http://europa.eu.int/comm/translation/writing/style_guides/e... - states that \"thousand million is officially recognized by teh European Commission\"
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Note added at 13 mins (2005-03-11 13:15:00 GMT)
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if it was 10(12) each person - nurse would be generating over 53 million euros which is plainly ridiculous
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Note added at 45 mins (2005-03-11 13:46:48 GMT)
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http://europa.eu.int/comm/translation/writing/style_guides/e... - states that \"thousand million is officially recognized by teh European Commission\"
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Dr Sue Levy (X)
: Absolutely correct. I have checked this with Eurostat personnel in the past.
15 mins
|
disagree |
Daphne Theodoraki
: Any references?/Lovely! The doc though just shows that "billion" (EN)=thousand million, whereas I'm answering what "billion" (FR) is: million million. As stated above, the original may indeed be wrong/Now I see you're quoting PAY-how do you deduce that?!
21 mins
|
there you go daphne, and a splendid read it is too. As stated above, it HAS to be 10(9), as 10(12) would be just ridiculous - France couldn't even afford it
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agree |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
1 hr
|
disagree |
Bourth (X)
: You are talking "Euro-English" billion, the translation of the French "milliard". In French no confusion is possible: milliard = 10^9, billion = 10^12. What one calls them in ENGLISH is the problem ...
2 hrs
|
agree |
Timothy Barton
: Bourth, there may be no confusion in French, but the author has clearly got it wrong. Glen's 13-minute note made me realise there's only one possible answer. We're paid to think, not to take dictionaries as Gospel.
5 hrs
|
agree |
Pallo
: The arithmetic clears it all up. If 10^9, then each person earns about 53,000 euros. Quite reasonable.
1 day 2 hrs
|
i agree - said that above earlier too
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Graded automatically based on peer agreement."
7 mins
trillion
trillion
-1
25 mins
billion (UK) or trillion (US)
according to my dictionary
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Timothy Barton
: Your dictionary doesn't reflect modern usage. The US system has become standard in the UK.
4 hrs
|
so what are you saying here then? Am I not right to call this a billion?
|
+1
7 mins
10(12)
10 (12)
Petit Robert: million de millions, soit 10(12)
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Note added at 10 mins (2005-03-11 13:11:55 GMT)
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In UK English: billion
billion n. m. billion
Définition :
Mille milliards, soit le chiffre 1 suivi de 12 zéros (1012).
. Note(s) :
Il existe une règle internationale de dénomination des grands nombres. Bien qu\'elle soit fortement recommandée par le Bureau international des poids et mesures, elle n\'a pas encore été adoptée par certains pays, dont les États-Unis. Ainsi, aux États-Unis, pour désigner 1012, on n\'utilise pas billion comme dans la majorité des pays, mais trillion. Aussi, afin d\'éviter toute confusion dans la dénomination des grands nombres, on tend de plus en plus à les exprimer en utilisant les puissances de 10, en l\'occurrence 1012.
www.granddictionnaire.com
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A \"billion\" in the U.S.A. means 1,000,000,000 (1e9); The British version of one billion means 1e12.
http://millennium.fortunecity.com/babar/269/205glo.html
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Note added at 13 mins (2005-03-11 13:14:45 GMT)
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But now I see that according to the Cambridge dictionary, this is now called \"trillion\", so I am not so sure anymore...
billion [Show phonetics]
noun [C]
1 1 000 000 000:
Cosmetics is a billion dollar industry.
2 UK OLD-FASHIONED 1 000 000 000 000
NOTE: This number is now called a trillion.
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Note added at 38 mins (2005-03-11 13:40:24 GMT)
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Since you \'re translating from French (into Hungarian, thus the English equivalent doesn\'t matter much here), you have to see what \"billion\" means in French. The Petit Robert, which I think we all agree is a more than reliable source, gives the following definition:
Les termes billion, trillion, quatrillion, quintillion et sextillion sont à éviter en raison des risques de confusion entre les nouvelles et les anciennes acceptions, encore en usage dans certains pays. 1. vx. Mille millions, soit 10(9) ->milliard, 2. (1948)MOD. Million de millions, soit 10(12) -> (téra).
The \"vx.\" (old) is Glen\'s proposal. Unless the author of your text wrote something wrong, the meaning is 10(12). Hope it a bit is clearer now.
Petit Robert: million de millions, soit 10(12)
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Note added at 10 mins (2005-03-11 13:11:55 GMT)
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In UK English: billion
billion n. m. billion
Définition :
Mille milliards, soit le chiffre 1 suivi de 12 zéros (1012).
. Note(s) :
Il existe une règle internationale de dénomination des grands nombres. Bien qu\'elle soit fortement recommandée par le Bureau international des poids et mesures, elle n\'a pas encore été adoptée par certains pays, dont les États-Unis. Ainsi, aux États-Unis, pour désigner 1012, on n\'utilise pas billion comme dans la majorité des pays, mais trillion. Aussi, afin d\'éviter toute confusion dans la dénomination des grands nombres, on tend de plus en plus à les exprimer en utilisant les puissances de 10, en l\'occurrence 1012.
www.granddictionnaire.com
-----
A \"billion\" in the U.S.A. means 1,000,000,000 (1e9); The British version of one billion means 1e12.
http://millennium.fortunecity.com/babar/269/205glo.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2005-03-11 13:14:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
But now I see that according to the Cambridge dictionary, this is now called \"trillion\", so I am not so sure anymore...
billion [Show phonetics]
noun [C]
1 1 000 000 000:
Cosmetics is a billion dollar industry.
2 UK OLD-FASHIONED 1 000 000 000 000
NOTE: This number is now called a trillion.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2005-03-11 13:40:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Since you \'re translating from French (into Hungarian, thus the English equivalent doesn\'t matter much here), you have to see what \"billion\" means in French. The Petit Robert, which I think we all agree is a more than reliable source, gives the following definition:
Les termes billion, trillion, quatrillion, quintillion et sextillion sont à éviter en raison des risques de confusion entre les nouvelles et les anciennes acceptions, encore en usage dans certains pays. 1. vx. Mille millions, soit 10(9) ->milliard, 2. (1948)MOD. Million de millions, soit 10(12) -> (téra).
The \"vx.\" (old) is Glen\'s proposal. Unless the author of your text wrote something wrong, the meaning is 10(12). Hope it a bit is clearer now.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Glen McCulley
: see my note - there are, for example, no billionnaires who have a fortune of a million million - imagine the difference between 1 and ten million, then again betwen ten and a million million - theer's only room for stars and cells
2 mins
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You're perhaps right, I've cited some references, but I'm confused now. Either there's a mistake in the original, in which case you're right, or there isn't and they mean indeed 10(12)...
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agree |
Attila Piróth
: billion in French means 10^12, no two ways about it.
48 mins
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Thanks, Attila.
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agree |
Bourth (X)
: Yes, a modern-day French billion = 10E12 = old British billion = 1,000 US billions = 1,000 milliards; but an old Fr. billion WAS a milliard, a US billion, 10E9
2 hrs
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Thank you Bourth. Perfect summary!
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+1
54 mins
Literally: trillion 10^12 (In Hungarian: billió)
Literally it means 10^12, as confirmed by Le Petit Robert etc. However, there is certainly a mistake: 2.3 x 10^13 euros is of the magnitude of the entire GDP of France in 20 years' time. Therefore billion, 10^9 (in Hungarian: milliárd) seems logical - and probably the confusion comes from the disparity between "billion" in English and French.
I would ask the client - most probably they will be happy to correct the original.
I would ask the client - most probably they will be happy to correct the original.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Bourth (X)
: If the client is using franglais, that's his problem!!!!
1 hr
|
+1
3 hrs
FRENCH "billion" versus "milliard"
Résumé:
A French "billion" is (these days) the same as a(n old) British "billion" = 10^12.
Since the French have "milliard" (10^9), there is no confusion (in French) over "billion".
Look at the following numbers :
Et pour cause, depuis la réunification des deux Allemagnes en 1990, les Allemands de l'Ouest ont investi au total déjà 1,25 billions d'euros ou environ 89 milliards d'euros par an dans l'économie ex-communiste de l'Allemagne de l'Est (chiffres de Reuters du 7 avril 2004).[ http://www.belgischeunie.be/_FRA/antecedents/president1.htm]
1.25 (French billions) / 14 (2004 - 1990) = 0.0892857 (French billions) = 89,285,700,000 = 89 French milliards or 89 US/(UK) billions (just leave the change!)
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Note added at 10 hrs 35 mins (2005-03-11 23:37:32 GMT)
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More maths:
Contrary to someone\'s maths above (each nurse generating 53 million euros), the sum mentioned is that MANAGED by the ASSOCIATIONS (\"elles\"). We don\'t know if it is salaries, the value of assets, the benefits distributed to the needy, etc., all the above, or a fraction thereof. Nor is it clearly stated in the excerpt that the figure applies to a single year ...
If it is a mistake, it is a ghastly one. Frankly, I have trouble imagining a native French speaker making such an error given that they have a distinct word for (US/UK) billion (milliard). Is it a translation maybe? Written by a non-native speaker? Even so, the magnitude of the error, if error it is, is astonishing.
Whatever the person meant to say, or should have said, it says 10^12. It can certainly be highlighted and queried in the translation, or before it is returned.
To \"correct\" \"billions\" to \"milliards\" on the say-so of a rag-tag mob of translators would be a serious breach, IMO. Maybe it should read neither \"billions\" (10^12) nor \"milliards\" (10^9), but \"Millions\" (10^6)(simple typo) ... I think to say the writer \"obviously meant\" \"milliards\" is taking a big (10^3) risk ...
A French "billion" is (these days) the same as a(n old) British "billion" = 10^12.
Since the French have "milliard" (10^9), there is no confusion (in French) over "billion".
Look at the following numbers :
Et pour cause, depuis la réunification des deux Allemagnes en 1990, les Allemands de l'Ouest ont investi au total déjà 1,25 billions d'euros ou environ 89 milliards d'euros par an dans l'économie ex-communiste de l'Allemagne de l'Est (chiffres de Reuters du 7 avril 2004).[ http://www.belgischeunie.be/_FRA/antecedents/president1.htm]
1.25 (French billions) / 14 (2004 - 1990) = 0.0892857 (French billions) = 89,285,700,000 = 89 French milliards or 89 US/(UK) billions (just leave the change!)
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Note added at 10 hrs 35 mins (2005-03-11 23:37:32 GMT)
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More maths:
Contrary to someone\'s maths above (each nurse generating 53 million euros), the sum mentioned is that MANAGED by the ASSOCIATIONS (\"elles\"). We don\'t know if it is salaries, the value of assets, the benefits distributed to the needy, etc., all the above, or a fraction thereof. Nor is it clearly stated in the excerpt that the figure applies to a single year ...
If it is a mistake, it is a ghastly one. Frankly, I have trouble imagining a native French speaker making such an error given that they have a distinct word for (US/UK) billion (milliard). Is it a translation maybe? Written by a non-native speaker? Even so, the magnitude of the error, if error it is, is astonishing.
Whatever the person meant to say, or should have said, it says 10^12. It can certainly be highlighted and queried in the translation, or before it is returned.
To \"correct\" \"billions\" to \"milliards\" on the say-so of a rag-tag mob of translators would be a serious breach, IMO. Maybe it should read neither \"billions\" (10^12) nor \"milliards\" (10^9), but \"Millions\" (10^6)(simple typo) ... I think to say the writer \"obviously meant\" \"milliards\" is taking a big (10^3) risk ...
Discussion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/page/0,5817,184840,00.h...
one thousand million, not one million million
use bn in headlines;
in copy use bn for sums of money, quantities or inanimate objects: �10b
I have to decide between "billi�" (10E12) or "milli�rd" (10E9)