Mar 15, 2011 12:11
13 yrs ago
7 viewers *
French term
hors périmètre
French to English
Bus/Financial
Management
more IT management speak
"Les interventions hors périmètre (non listé dans le RFP et la proposition technique) feront l’objet de l’établissement d’un devis."
... the same text also uses the exp. "hors contrat"... the périmètre in question here is the scope or coverage of the contrats d'infogérance (as you probably guessed)... "Out-of-scope interventions" sounds unnatural to me...
"Les interventions hors périmètre (non listé dans le RFP et la proposition technique) feront l’objet de l’établissement d’un devis."
... the same text also uses the exp. "hors contrat"... the périmètre in question here is the scope or coverage of the contrats d'infogérance (as you probably guessed)... "Out-of-scope interventions" sounds unnatural to me...
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | not included in the RFP/contract |
joehlindsay
|
| 3 +4 | out-of-scope |
Rob Grayson
|
| 3 +1 | beyond the scope (of the contract) |
Elizabeth Slaney
|
| 3 -1 | non-standard (operations) |
Colin Morley (X)
|
Proposed translations
1 day 7 hrs
Selected
not included in the RFP/contract
'Périmètre' is very, very often translated as scope. However, that is not natural English in the US (I think it may be in the UK?). Usually, for natural business English, rather than try to translate word-for-word, i would distill the thought to it's meaning, which is simply that it is not included on the RFP.
Scope in US English in this context sounds contrived, like "translated French". The French concept of perimètre seems often awkwardly translated in English.
I think you are correct, using the term scope in this context is unnatural. In formal science or something you could use it, but not in ordinary business writing.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2011-03-16 20:24:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Also, interventions is tricky. I'd go with 'services'. "Services not included in the RFP will be in a separate quote."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2011-03-18 14:41:31 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
I'm glad to see some one agrees. I have been troubled by seeing 'périmètre translated as scope for a long time. I don't know how it got started. I don't think I've ever seen 'périmètre explained properly in a bilingual dictionary. I answered "à périmètre constant" as 'ceteris paribus' or 'all other things being equal' in another kudoz question, but I could never find any documentation although the answer selected it. I think it's situations like this where there is a dearth of documentary evidence that these Proz questions are particularly useful. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days9 hrs (2011-03-18 21:31:32 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
That makes sense.
Scope in US English in this context sounds contrived, like "translated French". The French concept of perimètre seems often awkwardly translated in English.
I think you are correct, using the term scope in this context is unnatural. In formal science or something you could use it, but not in ordinary business writing.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2011-03-16 20:24:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Also, interventions is tricky. I'd go with 'services'. "Services not included in the RFP will be in a separate quote."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2011-03-18 14:41:31 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
I'm glad to see some one agrees. I have been troubled by seeing 'périmètre translated as scope for a long time. I don't know how it got started. I don't think I've ever seen 'périmètre explained properly in a bilingual dictionary. I answered "à périmètre constant" as 'ceteris paribus' or 'all other things being equal' in another kudoz question, but I could never find any documentation although the answer selected it. I think it's situations like this where there is a dearth of documentary evidence that these Proz questions are particularly useful. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days9 hrs (2011-03-18 21:31:32 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
That makes sense.
Note from asker:
| I suggest it got started for the oldest reason in the FR-EN translation book: the FR always "fancify", and this always blind-sides Anglophones. Sooooo often you have to get hold of some fancy FR nonsense and just unfancify it. PS I grew up in Yorkshire, we're sometimes quite blunt. |
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "yes, I think this is right. I'm in UK and think we use scope but not in this context, unless, creepingly, under FR influence, which is always the joker in the pack! I think sometimes it takes "translation guts" to go for a rather boring-sounding option ... so, bon courage!"
+4
2 mins
Rob Grayson
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Related KudoZ points
:
32
out-of-scope
Given that the context is RFPs and specifications, I would suggest that "interventions hors périmètre" could be translated "out-of-scope requirements".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2011-03-15 12:35:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note to asker: in response to your comment, I would suggest "out-of-scope activities" ("activities" often works better than "actions").
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2011-03-15 12:35:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note to asker: in response to your comment, I would suggest "out-of-scope activities" ("activities" often works better than "actions").
Note from asker:
| thanks... hmm I can see where you're coming from but from the rest of the doc I can be sure that these are actions. And I venture to suggest that "interventions" (FR) always involve actual action... "operations" might fit the bill. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
C. Tougas
0 min
|
|
Thanks
|
|
| agree |
Verginia Ophof
: http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/business-francais-anglais/co...
2 mins
|
|
Thanks
|
|
| agree |
Travelin Ann
: out-of-scope activities
2 hrs
|
|
Thanks
|
|
| agree |
Ana Rodrigues
3 hrs
|
|
Thanks
|
-1
34 mins
non-standard (operations)
Just as an alternative to out-of-scope
Note from asker:
| thanks, in fact it is indeed the "out of scope" bit that sounds wrong to me... non-standard might be right... although I see it as possibly more like "non-specified" (?) |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Rob Grayson
: Non-standard is qualitatively very different from out of scope. This is clearly referring to activities which are outside the scope of RFPs and/or specifications. It is the content of the RFP/spec that defines what is in or out of scope.
1 hr
|
+1
2 hrs
Elizabeth Slaney
Netherlands
Netherlands
Native in English
Specializes in field
Netherlands
Love a challenge, cope with pressure!
Native in: English (Variants: UK, US) 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English
beyond the scope (of the contract)
This would work if they mean work that is not covered by the contract...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-03-15 15:09:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or rather...beyond the scope of the RFP & technical proposal (not listed therein)....
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-03-15 15:09:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or rather...beyond the scope of the RFP & technical proposal (not listed therein)....
Something went wrong...