Tony M Sep 22, 2010:

For info: 'son existence' refers forward to the bit of the sentence that has been left off, i.e. the property or whatever it is that is being sold. It just means that the only guarantee you have is that the place does actually exist!

This is pretty basic, standard 'boiler-plate' legal stuff, found in many commonly-encountered house sale contracts, for example.

Tony M Sep 21, 2010:

@ Yussarian Oh deear, I fear you have misunderstood me!

I was only referring to the « comme il agit » as having no real translation value — of course 'son existence' must be translated! But let's not lose sight of the fact that that particular expression was not part of the original question...

C G Mckee Sep 21, 2010:

@ Tony M I agree with what your getting at RE 'son existence', its what I was trying to say. I still think it needs translated, and not left out as jargon. I guess Loulou you'll have to make an informed decision based on our advice, as you have the full context of the piece, it's pointless for us to debate nuances we are only guessing exist.

Re 'other guarantees', thats more or less what I am saying. I guess the sellor has no other way of guaranteeing the sale, other than the fact that he is the owner of whatever it is he is selling. Not making any other guarantees, I guess, would apply if the context implied the sale was far from finalised, but I'm just conjecturing here.

AllegroTrans Sep 20, 2010:

comme il agit "agissant en qualité de ...tel et tel" often appears in legal docs.
So my take n this is that it means "the purchaser, as he is described herein" - I am presuming that the purchaser has already been described in the preamble at the head of the document.
For asker to check on all this of course as we cannot see the full document.

Bourth (X) Sep 20, 2010:

I have a notion I've seen this before, and that it is "legalese" for "comme il s'agit (dessus)", the parties to the deed having been named towards the top of the document. This would certainly apply to l’acquéreur comme il agit (the buyer as named above, the aforementioned buyer). Obviously since Maître X is named in this sentence either I'm wrong or the name has been entered in error and it should really read le vendeur comme il agit. As I say, I suspect it is (old) legalese for what today might be le vendeur/acquéreur DONT il S'agit.
Another possible interpretation is that as agir relates to "action and a deed is an acte, it simply means "the party hereto (to this acte/deed of sale).

Tony M Sep 20, 2010:

Formula IMHO, it's a standard formula that has no translation value here

I never said it was "childishly easy", I merely pointed out that this is basic legal jargon, and one doesn't need to go looking for « midi à 14h »

philgoddard Sep 20, 2010:

Well, if it's so childishly easy... ...maybe you can enlighten us as to what "comme il agit" means. :-)

Tony M Sep 20, 2010:

@ Phil G Sorry, Phil, but this really is "basic stuff" — in terms of legal translation, naturally. this sort of wording is to be found in everyday boiler-plate documents such as the very common house purchase contracts, and apart from the fact that these terms have been translated thousands of times and are not all that hard to find, it only really needs a basic familiarity with the kind of language used in FR legal documents.

To respond to your last point, the apparent wrong agreement is almost certainly explained by what follows... the vital context that Asker has withheld from us. But I'll be willing to bet that at some point it does all end up with a singular m. noun of some kind (e.g. « le bien ») — I've seen too many of these things to doubt it!

Tony M Sep 20, 2010:

@ Yussarian Uh-huh... not really... to my way of thinking "In the absence of..." really turns the meaning round the other way, surely this is more like "without making any other guarantees..."

philgoddard Sep 20, 2010:

Tony: I disagree - it's not "really basic legal stuff" at all, and it's the rights (plural) which are being transferred, so why "son" existence?

C G Mckee Sep 20, 2010:

In that case, how about 'in the absence of any other guarantee. Clean and simple.

C G Mckee Sep 20, 2010:

I don't think son existence is a specific noun here. From reading cases it seems along the lines of what philgoddard is saying. I hesistated with 'his own means' but in a legal sense, this might be ambigous. Is it a case of Maître X having to guarantee something as the selling party, and having no means to guarantee it other than the fact he is the owner of it, hence in his name?

Louisa Tchaicha (asker) Sep 20, 2010:

Yes I have corrected "provisions", thank you philgoddard. I'm not sure at all I don't understand all this legal jargon :(

philgoddard Sep 20, 2010:

Could "comme il agit" mean "acting in his/its own capacity"?

philgoddard Sep 20, 2010:

I don't understand what "son" refers to in "son existence". And is Maître X really the seller, or a lawyer acting in the sale?
Also, asker, "dispositions" doesn't mean "disposals", it means "provisions", and the "code du commerce" is the "commercial code".