Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

subroger

English translation:

assign (one's rights to)

Added to glossary by Yolanda Broad
Sep 4, 2006 13:55
17 yrs ago
19 viewers *
French term

subroger

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
"X demeure libre de céder à un tiers tout ou partie des droits et obligations résultants du présent contrat * et de l'y subroger * sous quelque forme et à quelque titre que ce soit."

I've broken this down where "l apostrophe" is the third party, "y" is the contract and subroger = to subsititue. But I don't understand the actual meaning.

Many thanks for your help.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 subrogate
5 +2 assign

Discussion

Sandra Petch (asker) Sep 7, 2006:
Having spoken to the lawyer who drafted the contract "subroger" is used here in its meaning of subrogate i.e. the third party will stand in for the original party to the contract. He agreed there was a certain "redondance" with "céder les droits et les obligations." So I am sticking to my original choice of "subrogate"!
Sandra Petch (asker) Sep 6, 2006:
Thanks writeaway It's a contract between a composer and a music publisher. I'm still unsure how to handle the "l'y" part of the phrase... subrogate a third party to the contract? All help much appreciated!
writeaway Sep 6, 2006:
talking to a translator-lawyer it can depend on the type of contract. If it is insurance, then it can be subrogate.
writeaway Sep 6, 2006:
then subroger could be delegate in this context
Sandra Petch (asker) Sep 6, 2006:
Coming back to this as I check my work... The clause in full: "X demeure libre de céder à un tiers tout ou partie des droits et obligations résultants du présent contrat et de l'y subroger sous quelque forme et à quelque titre que ce soit."

I believe "céder" is assign rights in which case "subroger" would be subrogate. Is that correct?
Sandra Petch (asker) Sep 5, 2006:
To writeaway 1) I did check the glossary and still needed help (cf my note to Yolanda)
2) Bourth's answer gave me the explanation I needed hence early closing of my question
writeaway Sep 4, 2006:
you really should have waited or at least checked the glossary before you closed.

Proposed translations

+2
6 mins
Selected

subrogate

definition of subrogate - Take over a legal claim or right against a third party from another party who previously owned that right or claim.
www.investorwords.com/4799/subrogate.html

So it means that the original party to the contract can have another party perform its own duties under any contractual arrangement it chooses: it can withdraw totally from the operation; it can remain in charge but subcontract the work, etc.
Peer comment(s):

agree Carla Selyer : Also in Oxford Hachette dictionary
4 mins
agree Julie Barber
7 mins
neutral writeaway : good explanation but wrong context. it should have been assign here. see explanation below.
18 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Bending the Kudoz 24-hour rule... thank you Bourth, it's perfectly clear now!"
+2
3 hrs

assign

From the Council of Europe French-English Legal Dictionary, please note the difference between "subroger dans" (the "y" in your phrase) and "être subrogé":

SUBROGER
- DROIT - subroger quelqu'un dans ses droits - assign one's rights to someone.

- ÊTRE subrogé - be subrogated (to the rights of).

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Note added at 23 hrs (2006-09-05 13:40:20 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Dear Sandra,

Thank you for your reply. I will change the glossary accordingly.

Yolanda
Note from asker:
Thank you Yolanda for making this clear - I saw "assign" and "subrogate" in the glossary and the distinction wasn't clear.
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway
15 hrs
agree df49f (X)
18 hrs
Something went wrong...
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