Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
'Jouer La Pythie'
English translation:
To give a Delphic answer
Added to glossary by
B D Finch
Jan 30, 2012 09:47
12 yrs ago
French term
United Kingdom
BA(Hons), Dip Trans IOL, MCIL London
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English
'Jouer La Pythie'
French to English
Law/Patents
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
Electronic Commerce Directive
This is talking about the Electronic Commerce Directive and attempts by the Court of Justice to clarify it. See the middle paragraph below. I am looking for a good way of rendering this expression in English. I know who 'La Pythie' (Pythia) was, a sort of soothsayer in Ancient Greece, and I understand what it is getting at, I am just looking for some good suggestions for a translation.
Les mesures de filtrage et de blocage revendiquées restent imprécises et ne sont définies que par rapport à leur finalité - qui est de rendre impossible la circulation des contenus « illicites » - ce qui, en l'absence de toute portée déterminée, les rend non conformes aux textes.
Quand la Cour de justice ***joue à la Pythie*** : la clarification insuffisante des dispositions communautaires par la Cour de justice
Éprouvant des difficultés à déterminer l'étendue des mesures qu'il leur est permis de prendre à l'égard des intermédiaires, les juridictions nationales interrogent la Cour de justice afin d'obtenir des précisions sur les conditions de validité et les modalités de mise en place de telles mesures.
Les mesures de filtrage et de blocage revendiquées restent imprécises et ne sont définies que par rapport à leur finalité - qui est de rendre impossible la circulation des contenus « illicites » - ce qui, en l'absence de toute portée déterminée, les rend non conformes aux textes.
Quand la Cour de justice ***joue à la Pythie*** : la clarification insuffisante des dispositions communautaires par la Cour de justice
Éprouvant des difficultés à déterminer l'étendue des mesures qu'il leur est permis de prendre à l'égard des intermédiaires, les juridictions nationales interrogent la Cour de justice afin d'obtenir des précisions sur les conditions de validité et les modalités de mise en place de telles mesures.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +9 | To give a Delphic answer |
B D Finch
|
| 5 | Play the Oracle |
kashew
|
| 3 +1 | sitting on the fence |
Tony M
|
| 3 +1 | give a cryptic answer |
BrigitteHilgner
|
| 4 | (When the Court's rulings) are oracular: |
rkillings
|
Change log
Feb 13, 2012 09:12: B D Finch Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+9
2 hrs
Selected
To give a Delphic answer
If you want to keep it classical.
"That is a very Delphic answer. It is also a totally unsatisfactory way of handling defence."
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=1969-03-20a.764.1
The Pythia was the woman who gave the answers to questions asked of the Oracle at Delphi.
"One common view has been that the Pythia delivered oracles in a frenzied state induced by vapors rising from a chasm in the rock, and that she spoke gibberish which priests reshaped into the enigmatic prophecies preserved in Greek literature."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia
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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-01-30 12:01:03 GMT)
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"In modern terms, a "Delphic answer" or "Delphic statement" means something that is (1) ambiguous, or especially (2) something that can be interpreted in more than one way, and espe..."
http://www.blurtit.com/q907420.html
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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-01-30 12:11:09 GMT)
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Another view is that she supplemented the vapours from the rock by chewing leaves with hallucinogenic properties. Combined with perching on a tripod for hours, that probably meant she was really spaced out.
"That is a very Delphic answer. It is also a totally unsatisfactory way of handling defence."
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=1969-03-20a.764.1
The Pythia was the woman who gave the answers to questions asked of the Oracle at Delphi.
"One common view has been that the Pythia delivered oracles in a frenzied state induced by vapors rising from a chasm in the rock, and that she spoke gibberish which priests reshaped into the enigmatic prophecies preserved in Greek literature."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-01-30 12:01:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"In modern terms, a "Delphic answer" or "Delphic statement" means something that is (1) ambiguous, or especially (2) something that can be interpreted in more than one way, and espe..."
http://www.blurtit.com/q907420.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-01-30 12:11:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Another view is that she supplemented the vapours from the rock by chewing leaves with hallucinogenic properties. Combined with perching on a tripod for hours, that probably meant she was really spaced out.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Good solution!
6 mins
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Thanks Tony
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| agree |
Cetacea
: I like your interpretation, too: "spaced out" indeed... :-)
1 hr
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Thanks Cetacea. Yes, the job had its compensations!
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| agree |
Karen Vincent-Jones (X)
: Yes, this preserves the original Classical reference.
1 hr
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Thanks Karen
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| agree |
BrigitteHilgner
: This does sound rather sophisticated.
2 hrs
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Thanks Brigitte
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| agree |
philgoddard
6 hrs
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Thanks Phil
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| agree |
Verginia Ophof
7 hrs
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Thanks Verginia
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
7 hrs
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Thanks gallagy
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| agree |
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
9 hrs
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Yes, this kinda works!
10 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
14 mins
French term (edited):
jouer La Pythie
sitting on the fence
Although it's a fairly colloquila expression, it certainly does get used (perhaps in " ") in surprisingly formal documents.
It might be said that this isn't exactly the same thing, but in fact, it does rather amount to that: giving answers that can be interpreted in two (often opposing) ways in order to avoid committing oneself on something one basically doesn't know about!
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Note added at 39 minutes (2012-01-30 10:26:39 GMT)
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Although the classic definition is "to be a seer / soothsayer", I can't help feeling that the meaning here really is that of remaining non-committal by keeping their 'clarification' perhaps purposely vague; though to be honest, this whole area is such a minefield, it'd probably be hard to be more definite and at the same time cover all bases.
It might be said that this isn't exactly the same thing, but in fact, it does rather amount to that: giving answers that can be interpreted in two (often opposing) ways in order to avoid committing oneself on something one basically doesn't know about!
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Note added at 39 minutes (2012-01-30 10:26:39 GMT)
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Although the classic definition is "to be a seer / soothsayer", I can't help feeling that the meaning here really is that of remaining non-committal by keeping their 'clarification' perhaps purposely vague; though to be honest, this whole area is such a minefield, it'd probably be hard to be more definite and at the same time cover all bases.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: despite, as you say, the apparently completely different sense of the FR, your rendition makes far more sense (unless we start to talk about the Court leaving us all to play at being soothsayers, but...) // indeed TM, or some of our senior politicians..
46 mins
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Thanks, C! The Oracle at Delphi was famed for giving deliberately ambiguous answers, so she could never be proved wrong. Everybody would read into her answers what they wanted to hear... A bit like the Met Office, really ;-)
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+1
45 mins
BrigitteHilgner
Austria
Austria
Austria
b2b/economics/marketing/market research/
Native in: German 
Works in: German to English, French to German, English to German
French term (edited):
Jouer La Pythie
give a cryptic answer
All these "seers" expressed themselves in anything but clear terms. "A great realm will be destroyed" - and the asker thought it would be the realm of his enemy but it turned out to be his own realm ...
Note from asker:
| Hello Brigitte, all very interesting, but I am not sure a cryptic answer would sit well in a document of this kind...and if the directives hadn't been a bit cryptic in the first place, none of this would be necessary!!! |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Whilst this may be correct objectively, I don't think the term is very appropriate in a report of this kind.
50 mins
|
| agree |
Just Opera
: For me, this is more the meaning, i.e. the oracle spoke in 'gibberish' which other people had make sense of. In a way 'argument by verbosity'.
58 mins
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Thank you, Just Opera. There was a lot of guessing involved ...
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6 hrs
Play the Oracle
*
1 day 23 hrs
(When the Court's rulings) are oracular:
The ECJ will be identified in the second part, so no need to repeat the full name in the first.
High confidence not because I think this wording is so good, but because this adjective has been hung on the ECJ so many times before! (Google on "European Court of Justice" plus "oracular" :-))
No need to flaunt the writer's knowledge of classical antiquity. Besides, la pythie was a priestess of Apollo -- a lowercase title, not a person's name.
High confidence not because I think this wording is so good, but because this adjective has been hung on the ECJ so many times before! (Google on "European Court of Justice" plus "oracular" :-))
No need to flaunt the writer's knowledge of classical antiquity. Besides, la pythie was a priestess of Apollo -- a lowercase title, not a person's name.
Discussion
seems incomplete - is there something missing?