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un vecteur de nature lipidique cationique
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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

N-[1-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N- trimethylammonium chloride

English translation:

Dioleoxyloxy-propyl-trimethylammonium bromide

Added to glossary by Louisa Tchaicha
Oct 11, 2010 16:05
13 yrs ago
French term

N-[1-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N- trimethylammonium chloride

French to English Science Biology (-tech,-chem,micro-) polynucléotides
Hi there,

This is probably a dumb question, but to me it's just double dutch, I would love your help, my question is: is the tranlation of "bromure de dioléoxyloxy-propyl-triméthylammonium " = N-[1-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N- trimethylammonium chloride? :S

I dont understand, do I include the "N"'s or not?
Please help
Thank you :)
Proposed translations (English)
5 +5 Dioleoxyloxy-propyl-trimethylammonium bromide
5 +1 N-[1-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N- trimethylammonium chloride or DOTMA
References
Chemical structure of cationic lipids
I cannot see where you get "chloride" fr...

Discussion

Zareh Darakjian Ph.D. Oct 11, 2010:
site I referenced the web site not as a justification for the N,N,N inclusion. The N,N,Ns should be there regardless of how many sites have it. I may be mistaken, but at this point, I don't know in what sense. That's why I agreed with Lionel_M's answer.
Zareh Darakjian Ph.D. Oct 11, 2010:
Site http://nanomechanics.pratt.duke.edu/MSDS/N_Trimethoxysilylpr...
Zareh Darakjian Ph.D. Oct 11, 2010:
Keep I will keep the N,N,Ns. Check this and many other sites for N,N,N
Louisa Tchaicha (asker) Oct 11, 2010:
When searching for how to translate the DOTMA into English I found "N-[1-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N- trimethylammonium chloride" to me I did not understand why "bromide" would translate as chloride. (I will definitely put "bromide" since it seems that it is a mistake in the link I found) and why there were the "extra bits", now the question is should I go with Karen's answer and not add the N's on, or keep them as Zareh suggested.
Colin Rowe Oct 11, 2010:
With Lionel I think we now have several correct answers to an incorrect question - or rather, to several slightly different questions! :)
Lionel_M (X) Oct 11, 2010:
Please change the question :)
Karen Tkaczyk Oct 11, 2010:
Don't change nomenclature format, as a rule i.e. if there are position-specific N's and numbers in the ST translate them, if not, do not add them.
Zareh Darakjian Ph.D. Oct 11, 2010:
OK It's not that either the bromide or the chloride is "correct".. Either one will do the job. Sometimes they use the bromide, sometimes the chloride, and sometimes some other anion. The chloride or bromide is not the active part of the reagent.
liz askew Oct 11, 2010:
Seems to be a contradiction...#
INTRODUCTION - [Université de Limoges]
- [ Translate this page ]
Le prototype du lipide cationique utilisé lors du transfert de gène est le bromure de dioléoxyloxy-propyl-triméthylammonium (DOTMA), un ammonium quaternaire ...
www.unilim.fr/theses/2003/sante/.../these_body.html - Cached - Similar
#
EPATRAS - Display Text
- [ Translate this page ]
Le chlorure d'ammonium N-[1-(2,3-dioléoxyloxy)propyl]- N,N,N-triméthyle (DOTMA) .... Le lipide cationique est choisi de préférence dans le groupe comprenant ...
epatras.economie.fgov.be/affTexte.jsp?id=/ExtraData/FR/695/... - Cached
Zareh Darakjian Ph.D. Oct 11, 2010:
As Liz, suggested As Liz suggested, simply use "bromide" instead of chloride. Yes, the N's should be there in all their glory.. The N's refer to nitrogen atoms where the alkyl groups are attached. This is a quaternary amine (otherwise known as a (derivatie) ) of ammonium. Usually toxic.

Proposed translations

+5
20 mins
French term (edited): bromure de dioléoxyloxy-propyl-triméthylammonium
Selected

Dioleoxyloxy-propyl-trimethylammonium bromide

With respect, if it's double dutch you should not have accepted the job. There are plenty of us who specialise in chemistry.

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Note added at 1 hr (2010-10-11 18:01:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry you are doing a job you don't understand. Not a nice position to be in. For patents the rule is 'stay as literal as possible' so I would not change the nomenclature system in the translation. It would be adding detail that is not in the ST.
Note from asker:
Hi there, I am not a freelance translator but an in-house translator and have had this translation forced upon me, it is the first time I translate a chemistry patent.
Peer comment(s):
agree SJLD : on all counts
4 mins
Thanks
agree Joanne Archambault : I was waiting for you to answer :-)
10 mins
Just like I wait for you on the biology ones!
agree Anne C
23 mins
Thank you
agree liz askew : Well, I am with you on "bromide" (bromure).
1 hr
Thanks Liz
agree CFournier : d'accord avec Karen, si c'est un brevet, alors il faut rester aussi proche de l'original que possible.
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much!"
+1
19 mins

N-[1-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N- trimethylammonium chloride or DOTMA

Methods for preparation of lipid-encapsulated therapeutic agents ... - [ Traduci questa pagina ]... N-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl)-N,N,N-trimethylammonium chloride ("DOTMA"); N,N-distearyl-N,N-dimethylammonium bromide ("DDAB"); N-(2,3-dioleyloxy)propyl)-N,N ...
www.patentstorm.us/patents/7094423/claims.html - Copia cache - Simili
Peer comment(s):
neutral Karen Tkaczyk : Hi, it looks like the asker needs the bromide not the chloride
2 mins
But the term to translate is chloride no ?
agree Zareh Darakjian Ph.D.
29 mins
Thnks :)
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

18 mins
Reference:

Chemical structure of cationic lipids

There is no way I am going to try to answer a chemistry question, so hopefully you can find some guidance in this book:

http://tinyurl.com/cationic-lipids
Something went wrong...
10 mins
Reference:

I cannot see where you get "chloride" from, when "bromure" = bromide.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2010-10-11 16:19:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

forget that comment. see

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:B8DX9VL...
Le prototype du lipide cationique utilisé lors du transfert de gène est le bromure de dioléoxyloxy-propyl-triméthylammonium (DOTMA), un ammonium quaternaire amphiphile. La chaîne hydrophobe est en général constituée par un phospholipide neutre, la
Structural basis of DOTMA for its high intravenous transfection ...
by T Ren - 2000 - Cited by 36 - Related articles
Structural basis of DOTMA for its high intravenous transfection activity in ... N-[1-(2, 3-dioleyloxy)propyl]-N,N,N-trimethylammonium chloride (DOTMA) and ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10822303 - Similar



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2010-10-11 16:20:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

well, you have found what I have found

question is about "bromure"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2010-10-11 16:22:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

strange though
as I thought "chloride" = chlorure

and

"bromide" = bromure

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 mins (2010-10-11 16:24:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I can only find one reference with "bromure"...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2010-10-11 16:24:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

look here

EPATRAS - Display Text
- [ Translate this page ]
Le chlorure d'ammonium N-[1-(2,3-dioléoxyloxy)propyl]- N,N,N-triméthyle (DOTMA) est le premier ... Les détergents à 15 chaîne simple {tels que le bromure de ...
epatras.economie.fgov.be/affTexte.jsp?id=/ExtraData/FR/695/... - Cached
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Colin Rowe : I found the same references, but it still doesn't make sense. Bromide does not translate as chloride, even if both substances can be used in the same way here.
6 mins
I can only find on French example with "bromure". see discussion box
Something went wrong...
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