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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

pour s’identifier comme une seule et même personne

English translation:

to identify yourself as one and the same person

Added to glossary by Mari O'Keefe
Jun 4, 2021 11:57
2 yrs ago
42 viewers *
French term

pour s’identifier comme une seule et même personne

Non-PRO French to English Bus/Financial General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters T&C
Is there an 'official' way of translating the above? It appears in the following sentence in the terms and conditions of an online game contest policy.

Entrer ses nom et prénom, sexe et date de naissance (pour s’identifier comme une seule et même personne), son adresse mail (afin de recevoir un mail de confirmation de victoire, le cas échéant), les consoles qu’il possède et son adresse postale (afin de recevoir sa Dotation en cas de victoire, le cas échéant) ;
Proposed translations (English)
5 +4 to identify yourself as one and the same person
4 +2 in order to be identified as one and the same person
5 -2 (in order) to identify yourself uniquely
4 -2 to identify you
3 -1 to prove you are who you say (you are)
3 -3 in order to identify oneself as a single person
References
As in English, it is essentially emphatic
Change log

Jun 4, 2021 12:07: writeaway changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Bus/Financial" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "T&C"

Jun 4, 2021 12:56: Nikki Scott-Despaigne changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (2): Daryo, Anne Schulz

Non-PRO (3): Rob Grayson, AllegroTrans, Nikki Scott-Despaigne

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Discussion

SafeTex Jun 5, 2021:
@ Philgoddard I don't think the person is literally saying the words "I'm one and the same person". They are just being asked to provide some basic information to prove that they are who they say they are. So I don't think you can start to analyse "you are/ I am one and the same person" as this is simply never said out aloud by anyone.
philgoddard Jun 4, 2021:
You can say "These two entries refer to one and the same person" or "Clark Kent and Superman are one and the same person", but you can't say "You are one and the same person". It's a circular statement.

Proposed translations

+4
10 mins
Selected

to identify yourself as one and the same person

Nothing to add as this is a standard expression AFAIK
Reference:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/one-and-the-same

https://grammarist.com/usage/one-in-the-same/

Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : again, to quote George Clooney, what else?
14 mins
Thanks Writeaway
agree AllegroTrans
27 mins
Thanks AllegroTrans
agree Samuël Buysschaert
36 mins
Thanks Samuël
agree Sarah Bessioud
46 mins
Thanks Sarah
agree Conor McAuley
1 hr
Thanks Conor
neutral philgoddard : Sorry to keep disagreeing with you today :-) but one and the same as whom??
4 hrs
the person entering the details of course has to prove that they are "one and the same person"
disagree Daryo : "to identify yourself" yes, but for the whole of it there is a grand total of ZERO ghits // whatever dictionaries have to say ... this is not "a standard expression" used in the context of registering website users ***THAT is relevant here***.
14 hrs
Asker could perhaps change it to "to show/prove you are...' but essentially it has five agrees so you have yet again shot down what is clearly a reasonable answer, very close to the French expression too ("seule et même"). Congratulations🤪🤪🤪
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks for all your help."
-2
4 hrs

to identify you

I think the second half of the sentence is unnecessary and confusing.
Peer comment(s):
neutral SafeTex : wow, assuming that the person entering the details is trying to prove their identity, the reflexive pronoun "yourself" is surely a must.
25 mins
Why? Your name, gender and date of birth identify you.
disagree AllegroTrans : No, there is a deliberate emphasis and it's not the translator's call to simply ignore it
28 mins
"As one and the same person" makes no sense.
disagree Daryo : the text says it the other way round (s'identifier") and I can't see what would justify twisting that. // OTOH agree that "As one and the same person" doesn't sound quite right, but there is an existing widely used solution to that ...
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
9 hrs

in order to be identified as one and the same person

Unlesss the rest of the context confirms it, I don't believe this is a true reflexive here, but rather, more a passive 'be identified...'
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans : Can't disagree with you, but I think Saftex's answer is unambiguous
1 hr
Thanks, C!
neutral Daryo : it's the would-be contest participant that's doing the registering, that is being asked to identify himself/herself, so it is truly reflexive.
5 hrs
Thanks, Daryo! I think there is a strong argument for the notion of 'we can identify you' justifying the effectively passive construction. Remember computer expressions like "We were unable to identify you as..."
agree Yvonne Gallagher : I think this is more natural English
2 days 2 hrs
Thanks, Yvonne!
Something went wrong...
-2
14 hrs

(in order) to identify yourself uniquely

context: from the viewpoint of this online game contest organiser, the point is to avoid any confusion between the person that registered to participate in the contest with any other person - IOW to identify uniquely each participant.

search for "identify yourself uniquely" - exactly that wording

ghits aplenty ALL in the context of registering as user for all sort of websites.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2021-06-05 03:38:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Entrer ses nom et prénom, sexe et date de naissance (pour s’identifier comme une seule et même personne)
=
nom et prénom, sexe et date de naissance => the contestant is asked to self-identify uniquely in the real world

Peer comment(s):
disagree SafeTex : Passwords are unique identifiers but the user is NOT entering such but other information. In the context, it's more like when you enter the name of your favorite pet to confirm who you are. The text is NOT "numéro unique d'identification" or similar
31 mins
"Passwords are unique identifiers"? NO, they are NOT - user names must be "unique" within one register// All that is completely besides the point of this specific ST: here users are asked to "identify themselves uniquely" in the real world.
disagree AllegroTrans : "identify yourself uniquely" does not sound English
16 hrs
Seriously? Could it be because for you the terminology of Information Technology is a bit of Terra Incognita? Check this: https://www.google.com/search?q="identify yourself uniquely" ...
agree Tony M : Yes, I think this is the most standard and natural way of expressing this.
2 days 5 hrs
And it happens to be used by people designing databases of all sorts ...Thanks!
disagree GILLES MEUNIER : ça semble calqué...
3 days 12 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
20 hrs

to prove you are who you say (you are)

In view of some remarks in the discussion and neutrals/disagrees to answers, here is an alternative for the asker to consider
Given the situation, i don't agree with "identify yourself uniquely" (Daryo). That is much more to do with creating an account with a unique email address and password. The situation here is that the organisers are asking entrants to "prove they are who they say", a bit like when you have to answer the question "what is your favourite pet"
Neither of these are unique identifiers as most people will answer "cat" or "dog". And this applies too for name, sex and date of birth. There is no guarantee of their uniqueness and they are not used alone as unique identifiers as they are so easy to obtain. The email address is requested "in the event that you win" and so is not being used as a unique identifier either.
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : as explanation yes, but expect a -1 from Daryo when he reads this
1 day 8 hrs
Got the disagree but didn't expect anything quite as stupid
disagree Daryo : "proving who you are" is a completely different requirement - as long as you are the ONLY user with username "Donald Duck" then the requirement "s’identifier comme une seule et même personne" is fully satisfied, but would that prove you're a duck??
2 days 18 hrs
Not worth answering.
Something went wrong...
-3
4 hrs

in order to identify oneself as a single person

It's from a card which shows instructions:
"Enter name, surname, date of birth (to identify oneself as a single person), a mailing address to which one could receive confirmation of winnings, if applicable .."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 9 hrs (2021-06-06 21:54:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'une seule personne'
'a single person' or 'a solo person' /'a lone person'
https://www.linguee.com/english-french/search?source=auto&qu...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2021-06-10 08:46:29 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.deepl.com/translator#fr/en/ une seule et m%C3%AAme personne

FR: 'une seule et même personne' =
EN: ' a single person' OR 'one and the same person'
Peer comment(s):
disagree AllegroTrans : Lisa, please look at Safetex's answer and seriously ask yourself whether it is clear and unambiguous; then ask yourself (a) should I agree with it? (b) is my own answer confusing? (single v married???)
42 mins
disagree Tony M : Have to concur with A/T — 'single' used in isolation like this would suggest either 'unmarried' or, at a stretch, 'just one' — but without the clarification of 'and the same', it takes on a quite different connotation.
4 hrs
disagree ormiston : Agree with the comments above. You should re-read/think twice before posting
1 day 12 mins
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

As in English, it is essentially emphatic

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/seul/72434

"Un seul et même, un individu, un objet unique sous des noms ou des aspects différents : Votre client et mon directeur sont une seule et même personne."


https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/seul/...

"un seul et même..., une seule et même... one and the same..."

Just to point out that with "one and same", there are dictionary hits using Google and numerous suggestions vai forums, some better than others. However, the fact that it appears in the Larousse indicates that it is a standard in both French and English. ;-)
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree AllegroTrans
4 hrs
neutral Daryo : yes, but in this specific context expressing in that way the idea of "deciding whether it's the same person or not" doesn't sound right.
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
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