Any doubt in anyone's mind about this one? Thread poster: K_E_B
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K_E_B
Canada
Local time: 03:30
French to English
This posting has been suspended after I sent an alert (see text copied at the end of this post) but the advertiser has / has had numerous postings at this site:
https://www.proz.com/?sp=jobs&sp_mode=posts&search_setting=view_all&bb_id=50860
The advertiser is in China.
I looked at its LinkedIn page and followed some of the links, e.g.... See more This posting has been suspended after I sent an alert (see text copied at the end of this post) but the advertiser has / has had numerous postings at this site:
https://www.proz.com/?sp=jobs&sp_mode=posts&search_setting=view_all&bb_id=50860
The advertiser is in China.
I looked at its LinkedIn page and followed some of the links, e.g.
https://eachaa.com/?page_id=907
https://eachaa.com/?product=provider
Application fee = US75 + 13.20/month membership fee (or something), or so it seems.
I tried to figure this out, and failed:
https://eachaa.com/?page_id=946
The English is incomprehensible and the business model is about the same, but it seems to amount to charging people a hefty fee to be listed on the site as service providers. The advertiser does not require any services and is not offering work.
When I sent an alert to ProZ staff, I had not realized there were multiple other postings by the same advertiser. ProZ's response to me was to remind me that providers are responsible for doing their own risk analysis and to refer me to anti-scam resources at this site. My comment in return was that "the site is just a venue" for service providers and outsourcers, not for scammers.
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https://www.proz.com/job/1505831
International platform, (1)(2)(3)
Posted: 22 Oct 2018 9:32am EDT (GMT-4) (GMT: 22 Oct 2018 1:32pm)
Vetting and notifications sent at: 22 Oct 2018 1:44pm EDT (GMT-4)
Job type: Translation/editing/proofing job
Services required: Translation, Checking/editing, Education, Copywriting
Languages: English to Bulgarian, English to French, English to German, English to Hungarian, English to Italian, English to Norwegian, English to Polish, English to Portuguese, English to Slovak, English to Spanish, French to English, Spanish to English
Job description:
Hello,
EACHAA is a secure multinational platform.
You can visit:
https://eachaa.com/
NOTE: The Provider or any other memberships of EACHAA is "separate" from the below.
NOTE: See LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/eachaa
YOU REALLY NEED TO READ THE POSTS FIRST.
(You will not receive any responses if you do not follow the instructions.)
- check your email address
- check your subject
- check updates and more
NOTE: These are not potential.
These are its "own" "permanent" projects.
(1) Tasks: Web Book
All languages
Writing, translation, editing
Fiction, nonfiction
NO adult or erotic books.
Please first see LinkedIn and then send your application using the following form:
https://eachaa.com/?page_id=582
Please insert "Web Book" in the subject and specify your writing experience in detail, if any.
(2) Tasks: Language instruction
All languages
Online language instruction; teaching your native language.
You can use Skype or videos or just texts.
Please first see LinkedIn and then send your application using the following form:
https://eachaa.com/?page_id=582
Please insert "Language instruction" in the subject and specify your teaching or related experience in detail, if any.
(3) Project manager
Project: Web Book, Language instruction
Languages: English, Spanish, German, French, Czech, Finnish, Indonesian, Japanese, Lithuanian, Norwegian, Swedish, Chinese, Dutch, Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Greek, Latvian, Romanian, Slovenian, Bulgarian, Estonian, Malay, Sinhalese, Russian, Thai, Uzbek, Vietnamese, Danish, Slovak, Burmese, Hungarian
Individual, organisation
No time commitment required.
Your native language only.
Rates will be agreed.
Please first see LinkedIn and then send your application using the following form:
https://eachaa.com/?page_id=582
Please insert "Project manager" in the subject and specify related experience in detail, if any.
Applying for our different jobs/positions is completely OK.
Identity theft is completely NOT OK.
Service provider targeting (specified by job poster):
Membership: Non-members may quote after 12 hours
info Preferred native language: Target language(s)
Subject field: General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Quoting deadline: 29 Oct 2018 11:00am EDT (GMT-4) (GMT: 29 Oct 2018 3:00pm)
Delivery deadline: 29 Nov 2018 10:00am EST (GMT-5) (GMT: 29 Nov 2018 3:00pm)
Contact method: Please contact the outsourcer via the specified URL.
About the outsourcer:
Job posted by: EACHAA
Contact person title: PM
Company: EACHAA ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lian Pang 
Netherlands
Local time: 09:30
Member (2018)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I have seen them posting since... since a month ago. or two months ago. Never saw or heard anyone falling for it though.
It's clearly a scam, or some sort of pyramid sale scheme. Or money laundering.
Just ignore it.
| | | | K_E_B
Canada
Local time: 03:30
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Hi Lian Peng - of course I ignored it.
The point is that the advertiser should not be permitted to use the ProZ platform. (Ignoring bad things that go on in the world is not my usual choice. They may not hurt me, but they may hurt someone else, and if I can do something to stop that, I should.)
Hopefully, the review of the alert I sent will result in all its postings being removed and its account terminate... See more Hi Lian Peng - of course I ignored it.
The point is that the advertiser should not be permitted to use the ProZ platform. (Ignoring bad things that go on in the world is not my usual choice. They may not hurt me, but they may hurt someone else, and if I can do something to stop that, I should.)
Hopefully, the review of the alert I sent will result in all its postings being removed and its account terminated:
https://www.proz.com/profile/2565922
(I should correct what I said earlier - the advertiser is in South Korea, not China.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 10:30
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
| Proz.com is a business | Oct 24, 2018 |
As far as I see the advertiser is trying to make money, aren't we all? If there is nothing amoral in the advertisement, it should be left to us to decide, if we follow the invitation or stay away. I have paid for some translator listing sites and got even customers this way.
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| trying to make money | Oct 24, 2018 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
As far as I see the advertiser is trying to make money, aren't we all? If there is nothing amoral in the advertisement, it should be left to us to decide, if we follow the invitation or stay away. I have paid for some translator listing sites and got even customers this way.
Agree.
As long as there are no hidden fees or fraud in any way, it is totally legit to sell a service. However, they would have to convince us hat it is worth the money.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:30
Serbian to English
+ ...
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
As far as I see the advertiser is trying to make money, aren't we all? If there is nothing amoral in the advertisement, it should be left to us to decide, if we follow the invitation or stay away. I have paid for some translator listing sites and got even customers this way.
their "membership" may or may not be of any usefulness, BUT since when is paying for simply being listed called "a job"?
I apologise for my limited understanding, but I hope I'm not deluding myself by interpreting that a "a job" is something you do for someone and you get paid for it - unless I'm missing a nuance too subtle for my limited capacities, you don't pay to do a "job", you are the one that gets paid.
So I can't see how the "offer" of this site (I'm not sure that you could even call it an "agency") fits in a listing of "offered jobs"???
As for the argument that "the advertiser is trying to make money" in itself it doesn't sound very convincing - so does muggers and con men and a long list of other characters you don't necessarily want anywhere near you ... including a whole bestiary of scammers.
As for the "morality" of charging people for nothing more than simply being included in a list, in UK that's expressly forbidden in many fields.
just one sample:
What you can’t be charged for
It is a criminal offence if a letting agent charges you to register with them, to show you a list of available properties, or simply to view a property.
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/letting-agent-fees-charges-legal-list/
Anyone in UK advertising "jobs" and then instead trying to sell a membership would quickly attract unwelcome attention ...Any "employment agency" [that's what this EACHAA site roughly is] in UK trying to charge potential candidates for jobs monthly fees simply for being on their books wouldn't last very long.
[Edited at 2018-10-24 08:44 GMT]
[Edited at 2018-10-24 15:32 GMT]
| | | | K_E_B
Canada
Local time: 03:30
French to English
TOPIC STARTER | "Proz.com is a business" | Oct 24, 2018 |
What a strangely combative lot we are.
Yes, ProZ is a business. Its business is described on the home page:
"Serving the world's largest community of translators and language professionals, ProZ.com's mission is to provide tools and opportunities that translators, translation companies, and others in the language industry can use to network, expand their businesses, improve their work and experience added enjoyment in their professional endeavors."
T... See more What a strangely combative lot we are.
Yes, ProZ is a business. Its business is described on the home page:
"Serving the world's largest community of translators and language professionals, ProZ.com's mission is to provide tools and opportunities that translators, translation companies, and others in the language industry can use to network, expand their businesses, improve their work and experience added enjoyment in their professional endeavors."
The advertiser in this case is NOT anything or anyone "in the language industry". It is apparently a would-be marketplace for many types of goods and services that charges advertisers -- individuals and companies -- for listing their goods/services on its platform. (Reading its LinkedIn posts shows that it has persistent problems with users being blocked from the site and with other aspects site functioning.) It is not a service provider, and it is not an outsourcer. And I am not aware of the "Job Postings" section here being used by any other vendor of goods/services to sell its wares to users of ProZ. I consider it to be simply fraudulent for this company to represent the service it sells as a job posting.
I doubt that ProZ intended its platform to be used by competitors soliciting ProZ's pool of users. Yes, I generally think that corporations can look after their own interests, but in this case, it is the users' interests that were my concern.
You will note that ProZ has removed the posting in question -- but has allowed the account to stand. Since every posting by this account has been identical, i.e. links to pages for people to join/list their services for a fee, I'm not really sure why the account is viewed as appropriate here. I guess I'll just watch and see whether it posts new ads for its "services".
[Edited at 2018-10-24 14:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Agree with the OP | Oct 24, 2018 |
I have seen that very same "ad" published several times in the past few months and was actually wondering the same.
As for the "Proz.com is a business" canned argument, so what? Does that mean that, as long it's not an all-out and apparent scam, anything goes? So, following that reasoning, it would be OK if I "posted a job" saying that if you paid me €100 I might be able to perhaps find you some work?
Also, please chec... See more I have seen that very same "ad" published several times in the past few months and was actually wondering the same.
As for the "Proz.com is a business" canned argument, so what? Does that mean that, as long it's not an all-out and apparent scam, anything goes? So, following that reasoning, it would be OK if I "posted a job" saying that if you paid me €100 I might be able to perhaps find you some work?
Also, please check proz's own job posting FAQ.
For instance: "Can I use the job posting form to advertise my services?
No. There is no possibility that you will find a client using this form. Instead, you will only inconvenience fellow service providers, who expect only legitimate job opportunities to come via this form. Your right to enter quotes on jobs will also be revoked."
That's what this company is doing. They're advertising their (paid) services, not outsourcing projects.
Also: "1.4 - What type of jobs are not allowed at ProZ.com?
Please refrain from posting job notices that do not specifically require the services of multilingual professionals."
Again, that's not what's happening here.
And, even more specifically: "1.13 - I offer a service for translators seeking jobs. Can I post?
No. The job posting form is for proposing business arrangements of one type: job poster paying posting recipient to perform services. Web portals, those selling databases of translators, etc., or anyone suggested an arrangement whereby the recipient of a posting would be paying the poster, will be regarded as an illicit advertiser. The posting will be removed, associated memberships will be revoked, and you will be banned from future postings."
So, why are we even discussing this, and why is this "user" allowed to keep posting these "offers" instead of being banned?
If anyone was allowed to advertise their own business through the "job board" instead of actually publishing "real" projects, the whole thing would become even more useless than it already is, with the lowballers' rampage and all... ▲ Collapse
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K_E_B
Canada
Local time: 03:30
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
to Daryo (whose post before my last I had missed, because of the way links back to the thread are given in emails about replies) and Mirko, for the very useful info and arguments you have added.
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