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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)
Thread poster: Zhoudan
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
Agree Oct 29, 2009

Bin Tiede wrote:

I also feel, with my very limited language sense in English, that "once finished" sounds correct.

wherestip wrote:

Of course there are many other variations of this sentence, for example ...

"I will send the file back to you as soon as I finish translating it."

Or, "I will send you the file as soon as I have it translated by my 千里马."


Once finished 相当于把 Once it is finished 中的 "it is" 省略了。

在许多从句中,"it is" 都可省略,例如 "If necessary", "Whenever possible", "As scheduled".


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
Chinese to English
+ ...
Grammar Oct 29, 2009

ysun wrote:

Bin Tiede wrote:

I also feel, with my very limited language sense in English, that "once finished" sounds correct.

wherestip wrote:

Of course there are many other variations of this sentence, for example ...

"I will send the file back to you as soon as I finish translating it."

Or, "I will send you the file as soon as I have it translated by my 千里马."


Once finished 相当于把 Once it is finished 中的 "it is" 省略了。

在许多从句中,"it is" 都可省略,例如 "If necessary", "Whenever possible", "As scheduled".


Yueyin,

Yes, I agree.

Yesterday I also wanted to say the past participle "once finished" can be thought of as either modifying the subject noun "I" or the object noun "the file". In other words, it could be seen as either the shorthand of "Once I am finished", or "Once it is finished". But half way through, I remembered the past discussion we had on dangling participles and the ambiguity associated with them. With that in mind, I opted to go with analyzing the sentence using the proximity rule.

Without considering that rule, I would have chosen to look at the sentence structure the same way you just explained. But anyway, I think either interpretation is fine. They both work.

Like I said yesterday, I'm not that good at grammar. But most people don't pay much attention to grammar anyway. They just speak and write the way they do, and usually everything turns out okay.



[Edited at 2009-10-29 16:36 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
Good point Oct 29, 2009

Steve,

如果考虑到 dangling participles 的问题,Once I finish translating, I will send the file back to you immediately 这句话可改为:

Once having finished (translating), I will send the (translated) file back to you immediately.(应付考试肯定不会错)
或改为:
The translated file will be sent back to you immediately once finished.

但我想,习惯上 Once finished 似乎比 Once having finished 更常用一些。�
... See more
Steve,

如果考虑到 dangling participles 的问题,Once I finish translating, I will send the file back to you immediately 这句话可改为:

Once having finished (translating), I will send the (translated) file back to you immediately.(应付考试肯定不会错)
或改为:
The translated file will be sent back to you immediately once finished.

但我想,习惯上 Once finished 似乎比 Once having finished 更常用一些。我记得有位外籍英语老师说过,简洁的英语就是最好的英语。所以,你所建议的 "Once finished, I will send the file back to you immediately." 很好,从语法上讲也没问题。
Collapse


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
Chinese to English
+ ...
That's why some natives sometimes joke about English being a tricky language Oct 29, 2009

ysun wrote:

Steve,

如果考虑到 dangling participles 的问题,Once I finish translating, I will send the file back to you immediately 这句话可改为:

Once having finished (translating), I will send the (translated) file back to you immediately.(应付考试肯定不会错)
或改为:
The translated file will be sent back to you immediately once finished.

但我想,习惯上 Once finished 似乎比 Once having finished 更常用一些。我记得有位外籍英语老师说过,简洁的英语就是最好的英语。所以,你所建议的 "Once finished, I will send the file back to you immediately." 很好,从语法上讲也没问题。


Thanks, Yueyin.

I agree with what you said. Like I mentioned to Bin yesterday, there are lots of ways to say this that are all acceptable. English is that kind of language ... the possibilities of expressing the same thing often are numerous, but there are also lots of ways of tripping up and making errors.

For instance, in this simple example, one can say "Once I am finished", "Once I have finished", "Once having finished", "Once I am finished translating", "Once I have finished translating", "Once having finished translating", "Once finished", "Once finished translating", "Once the file is finished", "Once it is finished", "Once it is finished being translated", "Once finished being translated", ... etc. etc. All of these variations are correct and acceptable. And then on top of this, one has all the different choices of putting the description of completion of the task at the end of the sentence, as you suggested: "The translated file will be sent back to you immediately once finished." ...

Or you don't even have to say the word "finish" to imply the job being done. For example: "Once translated, I will send the file back to you immediately". In this case there is no ambiguity, because the speaker is obviously referring to the file



[Edited at 2009-10-29 17:33 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
殊途同归 Oct 29, 2009

Steve,

同意你的意见。同一意思可以不同方式表达。另一方面,有时对同一句子,也可从不同语法角度进行分析,而且都可以讲得通。例如 "Once finished, I will send the file back to you immediately." 可以解释为以下两种形式的省略:

Once (it is) finished, I will send the file back to you immediately.

Once (I am) finished, I will send the file back to you immediately.

这两个句子都是时间状语从句,所以不存在 dangling participles 的问题。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
Chinese to English
+ ...
Grammar Oct 29, 2009

ysun wrote:

这两个句子都是时间状语从句,所以不存在 dangling participles 的问题。



Oh, it's an adverbial clause, not attributive. Thanks for pointing that out. As I said, I'm not very good when it comes to these grammar issues.



[Edited at 2009-10-29 18:51 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
抠语法 Oct 29, 2009

以前为了应付各种英语考试,不得不猛抠语法。考完试后就把语法书和辅导书扔了。现在语法也忘得差不多了。:D

中国很多学英语的人都爱抠语法,但用的语法书很滥,往往误人子弟。那个“昨晚我一定是醉了”的 Kudoz 问题就是经典一例。

一般不从事语言工作的美国人或英国人,都不会去抠语法。1980年我在广州参加英语集训时,一位美国专家的夫人(她丈夫在黄浦港工作)自愿免费来教我们口语。结果不少学员一上课就大问语法问题。她说,我不会分析语法,但我们习惯上就是这样说的。上了几次课之后,她再也不来了。结果,使大家失去了一个很好的练口语机会。


[Edited at 2009-10-30 06:32 GMT]


 
wonita (X)
wonita (X)
China
Local time: 09:20
现在不了 Oct 30, 2009

ysun wrote:

抠语法


很多旅游景点的小商贩都能操着流利的awkward英语和老外讨价还价。

老外: tai gui
小贩: You say how much?



[Edited at 2009-10-30 17:21 GMT]


 
Zhoudan
Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
能力再强不如计划周密 Oct 31, 2009

Steve,

这句话怎么翻好呢?
“能力再强不如计划周密”
说这句话的人,没有好好准备托福考试,成绩不佳,他说自己没考好,不是因为学习能力不够,而是因为没有好好规划复习时间,得出的教训是:能力再强不如计划周密。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
Chinese to English
+ ...
自我安慰 Oct 31, 2009

Zhoudan wrote:

Steve,

这句话怎么翻好呢?
“能力再强不如计划周密”
说这句话的人,没有好好准备托福考试,成绩不佳,他说自己没考好,不是因为学习能力不够,而是因为没有好好规划复习时间,得出的教训是:能力再强不如计划周密。



Zhoudan,

Here's a few suggestions for you ...

"In this case the lack of clever planning overcame my real knowledge."

"The lack of clever planning overshadowed/overpowered my true potential. "

"Smart planning was the overriding factor that influenced the outcome of the exam, way more than true talent."


But I must say all of these sound like the speaker is half joking. Therefore I think your choice of words really has to depend on what the guy's attitude is. Is he just joking, finding excuses, talking smack, having sour grapes, or seriously trying to learn a few lessons from this experience?

How about something like this if he's really being serious about what he's saying ...

"Never underestimate the importance(or power) of a well-thought out plan; it beats(or prevails over, or takes precedence/priority over) tons of hard work and studying everytime."

A more concise version of this could be ...

"I'd take a well-thought out plan over a lot of hard work any day".

Or you could also translate it into something like this if he's just trying to be a smart alec ...

"A well-thought out plan always outweighs real smarts"


其他人有什么好主意也都说说呀.



[Edited at 2009-10-31 15:43 GMT]


 
peiling
peiling  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:20
Chinese to English
+ ...
好像有点口语化 Oct 31, 2009

我也来抛砖引玉.

I've learnt my lesson: ability means nothing without careful preparation.

Zhoudan wrote:

Steve,

这句话怎么翻好呢?
“能力再强不如计划周密”
说这句话的人,没有好好准备托福考试,成绩不佳,他说自己没考好,不是因为学习能力不够,而是因为没有好好规划复习时间,得出的教训是:能力再强不如计划周密。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
‘激励项目’的威力 Oct 31, 2009

Bin Tiede wrote:

很多旅游景点的小商贩都能操着流利的awkward英语和老外讨价还价。

老外: tai gui
小贩: You say how much?


那是因为有 incentive 激励着小贩们学英语。相反,某些旅游景点的工作人员却相形见绌,大概缺乏 incentive。去年我去颐和园游览时,见一位外国游客在游船售票处问路。那售票处工作人员看来是不懂英语,只是毫无表情地摇了摇头(起码应该笑一笑吧)。我觉得,这些著名旅游景点的工作人员应该经过培训,具备最基本的英语能力。

在王府井等闹市区也常可看到一些人(“高级小贩”)用似乎很流利的外语向外国人神秘地兜售什么东西,但只见那些外国人毫无表情地摇摇头或摆摆手(也没见笑一笑)。

相比之下,奥运期间,北京机场和街上许多地方都设有志愿者服务站,确实有不少外国人去询问。我在我住处附近的志愿者服务站与志愿者聊了聊。原来他们是附近北京邮电大学的学生。他们很热情,也很可爱。不知是什么激励着他们?;)


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
Chinese to English
+ ...
Yes Oct 31, 2009

Pei Ling Haußecker wrote:

我也来抛砖引玉.

I've learnt my lesson: ability means nothing without careful preparation.



Hi, Pei Ling. That's a good one.

Or "I conclude that talent is nought without a rigorous plan".


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
这块‘玉’应该如何译 Oct 31, 2009

Steve 和 Pei Ling 的建议都很好。

我来抛块别人的玉。Pei Ling 的建议忽然使我想起艾森豪维尔 (Dwight D. Eisenhower) 将军的名言: Plans are nothing; planning is everything.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/dwightdei149111.html

如何译为佳?
Pei Ling Haußecker wrote:

我也来抛砖引玉.

I've learnt my lesson: ability means nothing without careful preparation.





[Edited at 2009-10-31 16:11 GMT]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:20
Chinese to English
+ ...
Some background info Oct 31, 2009

ysun wrote:

我来抛块别人的玉。Pei Ling 的建议忽然使我想起艾森豪维尔 (Dwight D. Eisenhower) 将军的名言: Plans are nothing; planning is everything.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/dwightdei149111.html

如何译为佳?



Good question, Yueyin.

Here's some background info to aid in the brainstorming ...

http://www.allbusiness.com/trends-events/historical-events-world-war-ii/11786251-1.html



Dwight Eisenhower, when contemplating the Herculean effort to plan for Operation Overlord (the code name for the invasion of Normandy and northwest Europe during WWII) said, "Plans are nothing. Planning is everything." His considered view was that while both are necessary, plans are nothing but static documents, yet planning is a responsive and dynamic action that brings focus to uncertainty.

Consider a pilot flying a 747 from Los Angeles to Japan. The plan is to land at the Narita International airport. Once airborne though, unexpected winds, other aircraft traffic, etc., affect the plane's course. Unmanaged, the pilot would just as likely land the plane in Seoul. The flight plan sets an initial course and a final destination, but the process of planning ensures that the pilot takes the appropriate action to get the airplane where it needs to go.



 
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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)






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